Is aerobic cardio to be avoided? - Page 2

John Seaburg · 01-18-2006, 04:34 PM

When I hear someone say "running" I assume they mean jogging not sprinting.

Building new bone has less to do with absorbing impact and more to do with creating impact/power. Prolonged jogging is all about absorbing impact. It’s basically a controlled fall. The message it sends to the body is to thin out muscle and bone to become energy efficient. Thick muscle and bone require lots of energy. Sprinting does just the opposite. An elite sprinter is going to have much better bone density than an elite distance runner. The distance runner might even have osteoporosis or the early stages of osteoporosis.

The only way I could see jogging build new bone is if an extremely sedentary person does a little bit of jogging.

Josh Brehm · 01-18-2006, 04:38 PM

Larry, I guess you're right. I'm 5'11" ish and weigh just under 160. Isn't running though a really good skill to have? I mean, shouldn't being fit mean that you are able to run long distances if need be? Let's say you get stranded on a road when your car dies and your cell isn't working and the closest town is 5-10 miles away, what good is being able to do the type of crossfit workouts we do if we aren't able to run 10 miles for an emergency? and at a decent pace at that?

Craig Van De Walker · 01-18-2006, 04:56 PM

Josh,
I think the issue is the frequent use of LSD (long slow distance) as the major workout mode (without explosive and max strength work). I think I have actually read about some crossfitters who have dropped a lot of their distance running and when tested have actually improved on it. I cannot imagine anyone who follows crossfit not being able to cover 10 miles in an emergency.

I take part in additional weight training and probably carry more muscle some of the crossfitters that are partial to or come from an agressive endurance background. I can still cover a mile in just over 6-min. I run, but don't really enjoy it, I do it to try for more balance.

If you enjoy running and crossfit, do both and balance your recovery ability! I do crossfit workouts ~5-6 days a week I do other types of workouts 8-15 times per week in addition. I must do my best however to be careful about overtraining.

Clay Jones · 01-18-2006, 06:02 PM

I'm with Larry on this one: Body type is an amazing predictor of long distance running success. I weigh over 250, and do sprints only; anything over 400m just kills my knees.

I say if you like it, continue to do it.

01-18-2006, 08:48 PM

John, how could aerobic activity possibly lead to heart disease? Please explain.

John Seaburg · 01-18-2006, 09:56 PM

Zev,

Jogging can cause an unusually high spike in blood pressure leading to a sudden attack. Prolonged aerobic exercise can raise cortisol to an unhealthy level which can tear down the body leading to heart disease and other serious issues. Endurance athletes often develop heart arrhythmias.

Am I saying anyone who jogs or does 45 minutes on the stairmaster will drop dead tomorrow? Of course not. I'm saying when I look at the pros and cons of prolonged steady state aerobic exercise I don't think it's a good choice.

Larry Lindenman · 01-19-2006, 05:48 AM

John, very intresting posts. Josh, I don't like running long distances but, about every month, we rip off a 5 - 10K run or row. My 5K times hover around 25 minutes with peaks at the 23 level mark, when I'm feeling froggy and the moons are aligned. No world record here, but at 200-205, and 43 years old...not bad either. 3.1 years ago, I would have stabbed my eyes out before running a 5K, now I could do it...but people usually roam to the other side of the street when they see my face (or at least turn their faces)! Crossfits work in the first two energy pathways = compentance at longer aerobic efforts. Mark Twight may chime in, but at one time he only trained CF with no endurance training and completed a challanging very long backcountry ski event, and did well (since he has changed his program see Gym Jones). Many CFers have entered endurance events, like triathlons, with no specific prep. Soooooo, for "fun" go out and run. If your going to compete, run, but you don't need to.

Adam Grant · 01-20-2006, 06:15 PM

So I guess you guys take an HIIT approach to running for cardio vascular and fat burning purposes?

And sorry to derail, but how often should one do HIIT cardio in a week? I'd like to be doing it every day (trying to cut weight) but I don't know if that would have any adverse effects.

Larry Lindenman · 01-21-2006, 06:53 AM

Adam, do the Workout of the Day, tell me if you need additional HIIT training. If your trying to lose fat, tighten up your diet. I don't believe in a calorie is a calorie but...what's more efficient dropping junk food, some of which contains 200-300 Kcals per serving, or sprinting twice a day? Do the WOD, eat using Zone guidelines, and I guarantee you will be cut by summer (June about 5 months away, 1 lb per week, approx. 20 lbs of fat). The knowledge is here...it's the application that's not so easy.

Michael Forge · 01-24-2006, 05:38 AM

Adam, I'm a long-time runner and since I've started Crossfit, I've found no need to run for the sake of cardio/fat burning. I've worn a heart rate monitor for several of my Crossfit workouts and I can assure you they're just as cardiovascularly effective as all but the most intense runs.

01-18-2006, 08:48 PM	#15
Zev Barnett Profile: Posts: n/a	John, how could aerobic activity possibly lead to heart disease? Please explain.
Zev Barnett Profile: Posts: n/a

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01-18-2006, 04:34 PM	#11
John Seaburg Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sunnyvale CA Posts: 99	When I hear someone say "running" I assume they mean jogging not sprinting. Building new bone has less to do with absorbing impact and more to do with creating impact/power. Prolonged jogging is all about absorbing impact. It’s basically a controlled fall. The message it sends to the body is to thin out muscle and bone to become energy efficient. Thick muscle and bone require lots of energy. Sprinting does just the opposite. An elite sprinter is going to have much better bone density than an elite distance runner. The distance runner might even have osteoporosis or the early stages of osteoporosis. The only way I could see jogging build new bone is if an extremely sedentary person does a little bit of jogging.

01-18-2006, 04:38 PM	#12
Josh Brehm Member Profile: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas Oregon Posts: 560	Larry, I guess you're right. I'm 5'11" ish and weigh just under 160. Isn't running though a really good skill to have? I mean, shouldn't being fit mean that you are able to run long distances if need be? Let's say you get stranded on a road when your car dies and your cell isn't working and the closest town is 5-10 miles away, what good is being able to do the type of crossfit workouts we do if we aren't able to run 10 miles for an emergency? and at a decent pace at that?

01-18-2006, 04:56 PM	#13
Craig Van De Walker Member Profile: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Beaverton OR Posts: 872	Josh, I think the issue is the frequent use of LSD (long slow distance) as the major workout mode (without explosive and max strength work). I think I have actually read about some crossfitters who have dropped a lot of their distance running and when tested have actually improved on it. I cannot imagine anyone who follows crossfit not being able to cover 10 miles in an emergency. I take part in additional weight training and probably carry more muscle some of the crossfitters that are partial to or come from an agressive endurance background. I can still cover a mile in just over 6-min. I run, but don't really enjoy it, I do it to try for more balance. If you enjoy running and crossfit, do both and balance your recovery ability! I do crossfit workouts ~5-6 days a week I do other types of workouts 8-15 times per week in addition. I must do my best however to be careful about overtraining.

01-18-2006, 06:02 PM	#14
Clay Jones Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 672	I'm with Larry on this one: Body type is an amazing predictor of long distance running success. I weigh over 250, and do sprints only; anything over 400m just kills my knees. I say if you like it, continue to do it.

01-18-2006, 09:56 PM	#16
John Seaburg Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sunnyvale CA Posts: 99	Zev, Jogging can cause an unusually high spike in blood pressure leading to a sudden attack. Prolonged aerobic exercise can raise cortisol to an unhealthy level which can tear down the body leading to heart disease and other serious issues. Endurance athletes often develop heart arrhythmias. Am I saying anyone who jogs or does 45 minutes on the stairmaster will drop dead tomorrow? Of course not. I'm saying when I look at the pros and cons of prolonged steady state aerobic exercise I don't think it's a good choice.

01-19-2006, 05:48 AM	#17
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	John, very intresting posts. Josh, I don't like running long distances but, about every month, we rip off a 5 - 10K run or row. My 5K times hover around 25 minutes with peaks at the 23 level mark, when I'm feeling froggy and the moons are aligned. No world record here, but at 200-205, and 43 years old...not bad either. 3.1 years ago, I would have stabbed my eyes out before running a 5K, now I could do it...but people usually roam to the other side of the street when they see my face (or at least turn their faces)! Crossfits work in the first two energy pathways = compentance at longer aerobic efforts. Mark Twight may chime in, but at one time he only trained CF with no endurance training and completed a challanging very long backcountry ski event, and did well (since he has changed his program see Gym Jones). Many CFers have entered endurance events, like triathlons, with no specific prep. Soooooo, for "fun" go out and run. If your going to compete, run, but you don't need to.

01-20-2006, 06:15 PM	#18
Adam Grant Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 20	So I guess you guys take an HIIT approach to running for cardio vascular and fat burning purposes? And sorry to derail, but how often should one do HIIT cardio in a week? I'd like to be doing it every day (trying to cut weight) but I don't know if that would have any adverse effects.

01-21-2006, 06:53 AM	#19
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	Adam, do the Workout of the Day, tell me if you need additional HIIT training. If your trying to lose fat, tighten up your diet. I don't believe in a calorie is a calorie but...what's more efficient dropping junk food, some of which contains 200-300 Kcals per serving, or sprinting twice a day? Do the WOD, eat using Zone guidelines, and I guarantee you will be cut by summer (June about 5 months away, 1 lb per week, approx. 20 lbs of fat). The knowledge is here...it's the application that's not so easy.

01-24-2006, 05:38 AM	#20
Michael Forge Member Profile: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 105	Adam, I'm a long-time runner and since I've started Crossfit, I've found no need to run for the sake of cardio/fat burning. I've worn a heart rate monitor for several of my Crossfit workouts and I can assure you they're just as cardiovascularly effective as all but the most intense runs.