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Equipment Outfitting a serious gym. Vendors & suppliers. Devices & equipment

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Old 08-11-2004, 10:48 AM   #11
Paul M
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John,

I doubt that anyone else here has used one of these machines, so you're in the best position to judge its benefits. While you had the machine, did you feel like your fitness improved? How did your fitness using the machine compare to other exercise routines that you've followed, such as Crossfit? Did using the machine translate into better athletic performance? Did you find it much easier to work out consistently with this machine? I think that those are the kinds of questions you'd have to answer in order to decide whether or not to buy one of these - setting aside the cost issue.

I will point out that the "leaps of faith" that they require you to take are not things that are specific to that machine. Replacing 20-45 minutes of cardio with a shorter amount of high intensity work, total body movements, etc., all are the foundation of many excellent fitness protocols, Crossfit included. And I'd wager that many of these would far surpass this machine for strength building - something you pretty much admitted to in your first post. And as far as cardio goes, somewhere on that site, talking about the time efficiency for cardio purposes, they say that it takes 85 minutes of walking and only 3 minutes of sprinting. Well, why not just sprint for 3 minutes for your cardio every day and then add some weightlifting as well? It wouldn't take substantially more time than the 4 minutes they suggest it takes for this machine and it seems that you'd be getting a better overall workout.

I think Lincoln's first post was right on the mark, though, about the price. $14,000 would buy a lot of top notch equipment and more importantly, leave you money to spend on top notch personal instruction (and I don't mean from a typical gym personal trainer.) Great coaching probably would beat out great equipment any day of the week.

-Paul
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:34 AM   #12
Bob Long
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John, I agree we did sort of miss your point. And I also agree that since you are most likely the only one on this board who has actually used the equipment, only you can evaluate it fairly. Personally, having read their website data, it is not something I would use, price aside. I just don't like machines in general. Simpler the better. For those who like machines, perhaps it could be useful. But I think the price is relevant: You said perhaps we are not familiar with commercial equipment prices, and yet their website sells it as 80% being purchased for personal home use. And their justification for the price uses math that is phony: they admit you would have to keep (and use) the machine for close to 250 years to get down to the 20 cents per day they say it costs. Seems to me that a Concept 2 and a Schwinn Air-Dyne do the same things for under $1,000.

Sorry if we were hard on you. But it's really up to you. To you price does not seem to be an issue (you did buy one), but to me it's not something I would ever use.
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:53 AM   #13
Graham Hayes
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I've never used it or seen it in action, but I don't believe it works. It might make you tired like all the other machines at the gym but won't make you an athlete. I think this must be the 'miracle machine' that Dan John has mentioned, he offerd Tabata front squats with 65-95lb, that will do what the machine is supposed to do in the same time, and for 50 of my equipment, over 250 years that's 20p a year!!!
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:55 AM   #14
Jeff Martin
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John,
I know you weren't asking for comments on the price but holy c%$# 14 grand? I notice you had a post on the bowflex as well. My take on machines is simple, from the Nautilus machines in the 70's to today I have never found one that delivered on its promises. In fact my use of machines severely hurt my strength and athletic performance. I look back on thirty years of training and know that I wasted a lot of time not achieving what I could have. Given what I do, I want to hit faster, kick harder, lift heavier opponents and have a bigger “gas” tank than the guy I’m facing. I don’t see how lifting at the angles you describe is going to do that for me. My favorite piece of equipment is a heavy bag. I can lift it, throw it, carry it, and catch it. I can hang it up and practice my strikes. I can throw it on the ground and practice my “ground and pound.” After that I need an o bar, pull up bar, and some rings (courtesy of Tyler). There, I’ve outfitted my gym for under $500. Working out this way, at 45 (or soon to be) I’m faster and stronger than I was ten years ago, and still making huge strides. Done with machines.
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:57 AM   #15
Keith Wittenstein
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To get back to your point, John. I think Paul is absolutely right. If it works for YOU, then it works period. However, I personally suspect any machine where you sit down for your entire workout is not going to be as effective (functional) as exercises where you have to move your own body (or a significant amounts of weight).

BTW, what's your obsession with the quickgym? If you like it and have the money, then buy it. Invite us all over to try it and turn us into converts.
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Old 08-11-2004, 12:33 PM   #16
Larry Lindenman
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Machines force the body to work in a fixed plane. Free weights are 3D (they could move in any direction). Most Sports are played on your feet in 3 planes of movement, most Crossfit workouts are performed. . .on your feet with free weights or body weight. I think what we're trying to say is, most of us struggle to put together an elite training facility in our home / garage / basement / backyard. We follow a fitness program known as Crossfit. This program requires equipment: O-bar, bumper plates, rings, pull-up bar, medicine balls, KB's, matting, P-bars, GHR bench, concept II rower, etc. Many of us have to modify the program because we cannot afford all of the equipment. Many of us have built equipment to save money. All of us could put together the Crossfit gym of our dreams for 14K. The Quick Gym machine is almost the polar opposite of Crossfit (low tech high impact to high tech low impact). If you have completed the WOD for more than a month, you tell us. . .is the Quick Gym even close to a Crossfit workout?
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:46 PM   #17
John de la Garza
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Keith, did you read the site?

you say "I personally suspect any machine where you sit down for your entire workout"

you don't sit down the entire workout...

anyhow,

I got alot of responses saying I should judge it for myself becaue I used it. Um, I did judge if for myself, but I was seeking other input's and trying to find people who where curious enough to actually read up on the theory that the website presents

I wasn't trying to start a debate, so if I come across defensive, sorry.


but I felt like some responses where ignorant, I mean people took the time to respond without reading the site.

I felt it was a fenominal workout.

I was really looking for people who havn't used it to give me your opinion of the concept presented on the site. That would deffinatly envolve reading most of what the site has to offer. I understand if you don't have time or care to take the time to do that. I was thinking that some of you may have been willing or wanting to take the time to read about what they say and give some feed back on it. I didn't excpet what I got, but that's probably because I wasn't clear in my original post.

Once, again, I'm not trying to promote the machine or 'stick up for it'. I just have a hard time when people critisise things based on little knowledge.

Please take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, I'm not looking to argue, just wanted to try to maybe learn or think differently
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:52 PM   #18
John de la Garza
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Larry,

I hope my tone doesn't come across as offensive, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and give me your opinion, thank you. Just wanted to be clear that I'm not upset or anything.

I thnk the machine could have a place in a WOD for some of the interval training. It is meant to be a 'sprint'. Obvously it doen't meet the criteria of being cheap. High tech? I don't know about that, it is gears and chains, servicable by most any bike mechanic with parts you could find at a bike store. I may have a different definition of high tech.

The machine doesnt have a fixed plane. You can move the bar up down, left right when you push. As you push it wants to open up, you push it in working your inner chest, as you push away from you.

I would agree that it is not the same free ness as free weights, but don't assume it is a absolule fixed plane.

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Old 08-11-2004, 02:02 PM   #19
John de la Garza
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Bob,
I agree that the math if cheesy. They do bogus math. They talk about using their machine for 8 minutes (upper and lower on the same day) and a day of rest...then get the numbers for running using everyday as opposed to every other day. I would agree that it is 250 years is a ridiculous number to use.

you said a rowing machine would do the same as this. On this machine you have to push it back up and also keep the bars from moving out. So you push out and in also you use hour abs an hips to move forward. What I'm saying is it has reistance in both ways, forward and back.
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Old 08-11-2004, 02:12 PM   #20
Paul M
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John,

For what its worth, I read through most of the stuff on the site and tried to address that in my previous post:

Its well known that high intensity exercise for short periods can improve fitness faster than long steady exercise such as walking. And you don't need the quick gym in order to do them. If you read the studies, you'll find that the Japanese studies by Tabata were done on a stationary bike, for example - not the quick gym. If you read through the workouts on this website, or through the Crossfit journal, or on numerous other websites, you'll find that lots of people are incorporating Tabata's results. Crossfit does Tabata intervals with lots of different movements, such as bodyweight squats and pushups, which require NO equipment (you could do them naked at home if you wanted.) I think that most people on this site have read about these studies and accepted them. They've also tried doing Tabata intervals on a number of different exercises, just not the Quick Gym!

The big question, then, is whether the Quick Gym does something more than what you could get with anywhere from no equipment up to $14,000. While the Quick Gym might incorporate pushing and pulling into one giant movement, you can practice pushing and pulling movements back to back with as little as a chinup bar. Mixing bodyweight squats, chinups, and pushups into a system of intervals, you'd be getting close to what the quick gym offers. Pullup bars can cost as little as $10.

I didn't order the free video, so I can't totally visualize what the movement is like. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's a video online that I missed. But, I think that, with some creativity, you can work just as many muscles in close to as little time with very little equipment. Add a barbell and bumper plates to go with your chinup bar and you're a long, long way there.

Hope this helps.

-Paul
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