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Old 04-03-2007, 09:08 AM   #1
Dave Henry
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I've been running through the CFnorth athletic skills chart and came along to the vertical jump test. I though this one would be hard for me based on my past history of jumping (my goal being to be level 2 or higher across the board) level 1= 10inches, level 2 = 18inches, level 3 = 25 inches, level 4 = 30 inches.
I achieve 22.5' which shocked me when i looked at the chalk marks on the wall... but I have no real baseline as to what I was jumping precrossfit aside from a vague memory of doing this test in Highschool, and a lifetime of seeming like i'm a poor jumper.
Has CF improved your vertical?
How much, and how long did it take?
How fractional is it for me to increase 2.5' to get to level 3?


I'll copy how I ran the test below: (I just chalked my fingers to make my marks)
the athlete stands side on to a wall and reaches up with the hand closest to the wall. Keeping the feet flat on the ground, the point of the fingertips is marked or recorded. The athlete then stands away from the wall, and jumps vertically as high as possible using both arms and legs to assist in projecting the body upwards. Attempt to touch the wall at the highest point of the jump. The difference in distance between the reach height and the jump height is the score. The best of three attempts is recorded.(I also tried both sides, to see if it was the same)
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:58 PM   #2
Mark Rippetoe
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It has been my experience, and the observation of most experienced coaches, that a trained vertical jump does not improve much over the course of an athlete's career. My guess is that it might improve 20-25%, but certainly not as much as other aspects of performance. Some initial progress is inherent in learning how to effectively do the test, but after that the limitations imposed by inherited neuromuscular efficiency tend to limit vertical jump progress. For this reason, it is a good indicator of talent for explosive athletics in younger kids, since the capacity is present from birth and expresses itself early. It is one of the more useful components of the NFL combine tests because it reveals potential, as well as current ability, which the squat might not do. Strength, technique, and psychological ability can make huge improvements, but only within the context of genetically-constrained neuromuscular efficiency.

Actually, this points out the primary flaw in the CFN tables, especially if they are presented as a progression. Performances that are heavily dependent on neuromuscular system factors and the endocrine/neural components that control them are subject to the limitations thereof. Individual genetics, male/female differences in potential, and age-specific factors must all be considered in the development of any table of performance standards. It appears as though the CFN tables suggest that it is possible to improve one's vertical jump from 10" to 30", and this is simply not possible. And there are no differences in standards for the "military press" between male and female, or for most of the other tests that most definitely display different potentials respective of sex - the reason competitive sports have men's and women's divisions.

In addition, performance in strength-dependent tests does not vary with bodyweight in a linear manner; performance suffers relative to bodyweight among taller, heavier athletes. This fact is reflected in the "best lifter" formulas used in both powerlifting and weightlifting, and has been recognized for many years as necessary to take into account when comparing the performances of different athletes. The CFN tables do not allow for this commonly observed phenomenon.
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:58 AM   #3
Andy Shirley
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Mark,
What about subbing in your weightlifting standards for the CFN %BW standards(in the applicable categories)?

I would think this would solve some of the issues addressed, except the most pertinent one to this thread--vertical jump. But the CFN standards do make it easier, by using simple %BW formulas, to categorize yourself.

Although, I do love your chart:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

Any similar references on the olympic lifts?

CFN Standards here for reference:
http://www.crossfitnorth.com/article..._Standards.pdf

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Old 04-06-2007, 01:00 PM   #4
Mark Rippetoe
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Andy:

It would help, but it appears that the purpose of the CFN numbers is to address primarily CF-related parameters, not the lifts per se. And even though it is easy to use a simple bodyweight calculation, it doesn't actually work.

There may be similar references on the two lifts, but I don't know where they'd be, and producing such a table is outside our scope.

Rip
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:17 AM   #5
Andy Shirley
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Not to threadjack too much, but it has often been noticed that the strongest performers in CF often have a pretty decent strength background.

So I would say that the lifts are a CF-related parameter, too often overlooked.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:28 AM   #6
Dave Henry
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Thanks for the great reply....Mark and I have your books and have read them a couple times now. well worth the money. I've been using both the CFnorth chart and the Basic strength standards to judge my progress... right now I'm 90% complete level 2 on the CFN chart, and 74% complete the Intermediate on all 5 Basic Strength Standards.
I've found both to be helpful in keeping me aware of what good short term goals are and how long its going to be to obtain them.
As far as coming into crossfit, I came as a completely one dimensional athlete all in the endurance running and have made major changes with minimal loss on the running side... I have 4 excersizes left on the CFN chart to complete but they arent going to happen overnight.
45 reps of Thrusters (1/2BW)
20 pullups
30 snatches per hand (1.5 pood)
30 sec L sit

here are my numbers on the BSS
Now %Complete Goal
Press 115lbs 69% 138lbs

Bench Press 185lbs 92% 201lbs

Power Clean 115lbs 59% 194lbs

Squat 185lbs 69% 269lbs

Deadlift 260lbs 83% 315lbs
My eta on reaching the intermediate level is in mid june.... how does that sound?}
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:50 PM   #7
Mark Rippetoe
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You are rapidly becoming The Man, Dave. Maintain.

Rip
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:25 PM   #8
Dave Henry
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Thanks Rip!
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:56 PM   #9
Lincoln Brigham
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What I have heard reported is that folks with poor initial VJs (ummm... like me) often see the biggest improvements. In other words, it's easier to take an untrained 20" vertical to 26" than a 36" vertical to 42".
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:53 PM   #10
Dave Henry
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I think that's along the lines of what's happened to me. I took myself from poor to passable. Now the steep road begins (now all I got to do is fill my pack full of weights and run up it)
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