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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 01-18-2008, 11:10 AM   #81
Steven Low
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Re: Kipping Styles

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Originally Posted by Bryan Ragon View Post
To be fair, I don't believe Grover ever stated how much was conserved (I didn't go back and look.) I believe I made up those numbers, just to give us some solid number to do some math with. What the actual percentage is I have no idea. But if you're right, and it's less, then that just makes kipping pull-ups pull ahead faster, both in terms of reps/second and work/sec and total work.
Next time you do one (if your shoulders are strong), just let yourself relax and come down from the kip at the top. I'm sure you won't have much momentum traveling up and backwards at the end (mainly cause the stretch-shorten cycle does not absorb all of it and the arch contains very little energy).
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:26 PM   #82
Rick Williams
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Re: Kipping Styles

I don't think I've read, talked, and thought this much about something I couldn't do since junior year in HS. Is there one style that is easiest to learn?
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:36 PM   #83
Derek Maffett
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Re: Kipping Styles

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I don't think I've read, talked, and thought this much about something I couldn't do since junior year in HS. Is there one style that is easiest to learn?
Pretty much whichever works for you. The swing style seems to be the usual one to be taught and used by most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyXTg...eature=related w/fs

Steven, in the AFT video above, is the kipping style really good for the shoulders? Flared elbows being bad in general, it seems the AFT kip might be risky. I do notice, however, that the body is farther away from the bar during the concentric (and thus the elbows aren't flared out so much as the negative).
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:58 PM   #84
Steven Low
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Re: Kipping Styles

As I said in the other thread:

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If it doesn't give him shoulder problems then it's not bad [for him]. Usually pulling exercises don't impinge the shoulders as much as pushing does. Usually with pulling it's subluxations that occur if the shoulder is too far out of the socket when pulling.
Iron cross is "flaired" elbows (well, abducted shoulder joint) and is more or less a pulling exercise using lats and chest. It's not necessarily bad for the shoulders although for some people it can cause some shoulder impinging if you don't keep the shoulders active by depressing the shoulder girdle.

So basically flared elbows during pulling movements generally doesn't cause as much problems as pushing does because if active shoulders are kept the supraspinatus and other musculature is kept fairly farther away from the bony structures like the acromion and not allowed to impinge.

Indeed with active shoulders in PUSHING it allows the scapulae to protract and elevate which give the shoulder joint more room to move overhead. When this fails to occur with generally scapular dysfunction or poor thoracic mobility is when the musculature starts to rub or impinge against the acromion. That's where most of the shoulder problems are occuring (and why the supraspinatus is the most injured RC muscle).
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:00 AM   #85
Bryan Ragon
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Re: Kipping Styles

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Next time you do one (if your shoulders are strong), just let yourself relax and come down from the kip at the top. I'm sure you won't have much momentum traveling up and backwards at the end (mainly cause the stretch-shorten cycle does not absorb all of it and the arch contains very little energy).
I agree. While I believe there is some conservation of energy, I don't believe it's not that much. As I said I just made up the 40% number to do some math with. I wanted to show that even using a highly generous estimation of energy conservation, that kipping still comes out on top. And the high performance of kipping is more attributable to the spreading of the work across the entire body.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:28 PM   #86
Derek Maffett
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Re: Kipping Styles

Look at the Helen OPT video and the AFKK. Both incorporate a small kick backwards right into the kip. It's surprising how many intricacies there are to this.

I ditched the AFT kip a while ago to work with the AFKK kip instead. I think it's much more similar to what I would normally do when trying to do the pull-ups quickly.
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