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Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

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Old 03-12-2006, 06:53 PM   #1
Steve Liberati
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Here's my question folks:

According to Zone recommendations, I'm a "5 Blocker." I'm supposed to eat "5 Block" meals at breakfast, lunch, dinner and 2 snacks in between.

By the time I workout at night, there is usually one meal remaining at the end of the day. My question is, why does the meal following my workout look the same as say, my snack in the middle of the afternoon? Shouldn't my meal look different after 20 minutes of intense training than say in the middle of the afternoon when my glycogen tank is practically full and my blood sugar levels are stable? Doesn't it make sense to steal some carbs from my afternoon snack and move them to the my post-wokout meal when my body is primed for a large insulin spike?
In other words, does Crossfit workouts have not enough effect on glycogen levels to handle a larger insulin spike than the other 4-5 meals of the day?

I guess I'm just confused why the Zone does not seem to recognize the post workout window and glycogen repleniishment.

If any can explain, that would be great.

thanks.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:02 PM   #2
Robert Wolf
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Steve-

If you sift through the archives you will find some discussions on this topic. To take advantage of the post workout non-insulin mediated nutrient transport you can simply shift most of your carb blocks to that time.

If you stick to mainly veggies during your earlier meals you will get plenty of nutrition while leaving the majority of your blocks available for later. Its up to you as to whether you keep the PWO carb pretty nutritious (yams, sweet potatos, fruit) or something like maltodextrin.

This is essentially what John Berardi recomends (as you know). This is also the topic of Loren Cordains most recent book Paleo Diet For Athletes:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/paleo_bo...athletes.shtml


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Old 03-12-2006, 08:18 PM   #3
Steve Liberati
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More curious how many people here incorporated the post-workout nutrient transport system into the Zone protocol and how well it worked in comparison to results achieved following the Zone plan with zero modification.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:30 PM   #4
Robert Wolf
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If I stayed to "whole foods" (fruit, yams etc.) it works fine. As soon as I stick food in a blender I imediately get fat around the midsection.

n=1
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:01 AM   #5
Larry Lindenman
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Steve, I use to use Surge post workout. Didn't work for me after weight training, I did feel more recovered after an endurance event; I felt poorer though. I then transitioned to chocolate milk, same...except I had more money in the end. I then went all Zone. I don't feel "better" or more recovered, just the same. By the way excepting the post workout insulin spike (which is advantageous for supplement companies to hype to the max) John Berardi's recommendations are shockingly similar to the Zone...eat meat, vegetables, fruits, and good fat with every meal. I don't think any of us would have any problem with his recommendations sans post workout nutrition. As a 5 blocker your getting 133g of protein per day, roughly .67g of protein/lb of body weight...more if you look at lean body mass. Berardi's "Massive Eating" recommendations (which he has changed from his original article) is designed for bodybuilders looking to gain lean body mass...we're really not looking to increase lean mass to the level of a bodybuilder. Our goals are performance based not ascetic based. This may explain why so many people could lower protein, total calories (slightly, if the athletes zone is used), and ignore the post workout window (which many scientists believe is actually much longer than an hour; which is not good for companies that want you to rush and drink their product), and still lose fat, gain muscle mass and improve performance. Steve, you've been beating around the bush for months now. You hate the Zone and can't believe people here are successful using the Zone. Steve, this is going to be one of the largest samples of a community sticking to a particular diet. A poll of T-Nation will show people eating every one of their 50 or so diets, with various levels of commitment and results. We have seen consistent results on the Zone and Athletes Zone, with no negative side effects...why is this so offensive to you? Were not talking scientific theory, we're talking practice = results. I have personally seen the results in myself and many others.
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Old 03-13-2006, 10:52 AM   #6
Robert Wolf
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Taken from Dr. Berardi's coverage of the SWISS symposium:

"All in all, this was an excellent talk and I agree with much of Barry's conclusions. If you hold our recommendations up to one another, the overlaps would be strikingly similar."

Full article here...scroll most of the way down for the Barry Sears review:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461022


Steve-

You are always welcome to question and debate but your behavior has bordered on that of a Troll. You question yet provide response, merely shifting gears to launch another attack at the status quo. Classic Troll behavior.

You have also lambasted people in various threads with a level of arrogance that is frankly stunning to observe. In simple terms you need to conduct yourself with some class, kindness and decorum or you are going to get bumped down the information superhighway.

Just to head off any whining about totalitarianism it is obvious everyone here has a right to an opinion...even if they are wrong. Sorry, not much room for social relativism. Anyone is free to post any opinion they have but I guarantee you that position will be taken to task in a very rigorous manner. These people have an opinion:
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...rthsociety.htm

Which happens to be wrong. If however I am having a debate with them I will treat them with respect. You are going to do the same from henceforth.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:51 AM   #7
David Stegman
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Ok I have a question or better yet a "dilema" when it comes to post work out nutrition.

On the nights that I train jiu-jitsu I train really hard. Typically I train 3 nights a week and one day (sunday). After class I normally drink a bit of gatorade and then a protein shake (normally muscle milk). After reading quite a bit on this forum I really want to get away from the pre-mixed or powdered supplements i.e. "muscle milk".

So my question is: What kind of simple portable and easy to consume food should I eat after my workouts? What do you guys suggest? I'm all about convience though,thus the main reason I liked the muscle milk etc. However, I'm needing help getting away from that stuff!!!

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Old 03-13-2006, 12:56 PM   #8
Steve Liberati
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Guys,
Ya know I'm not trying to defend Berardi's PWO nutrition recommendations and bash the principles of the Zone diet whenever I can. NOT at all. Sorry if you think that is the case. Instead, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about nutrition in general and find the best techniques out there for getting in great shape and great health. I don't find the Zone diet offensive at all. That is laughable. I'm just trying to find all the good bad points, as well as the bad points before changing my entire diet around and giving it a try. I have learned a lot about nutrition since joining the board at the beginning of the yr and hope to continue doing so. With that said, going forward I will try harder to be more diplomatic and accepting in my approach. You may consider this my public apology.

Regards,
Steve
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:11 PM   #9
Steve Liberati
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Robb,
You got mail!
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:29 PM   #10
Robert Wolf
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Thanks Steve!

David-

Some folks around here rave aobut hte muscle milk...it seems like a pretty good option but mashed yams (tsp. of cinnamon-helps flavor and enhances absorption) with a small piece of chicken is pretty easy as well.

Convenience is a tough one. I fyou are wrapping up later int he eveing and then driving home you may need to be flexible wiht things. some thing as simple as fruit and meat PWO may also work however.
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