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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 06-22-2010, 02:36 PM   #41
Shane Skowron
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Re: Jon Gilson Again Faster Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
What's your definition of endurance? I'm sure we agree that a three-hour effort is different than a ten-minute effort, right?
(Yes, I know they both engage the oxidative pathway. That doesn't mean they're the same.)
I define endurance to be anything where the oxidative/aerobic/endurance energy system is primarily responsible for providing effort. Physiologically speaking, the glycolytic and phosphagen systems lose their dominance around 30 seconds of continuous effort and are completely dominated by the aerobic system within 2 minutes.

There is very little difference in VO2 Max, average physique, or top speed between elite runners who compete in the 1500m (a sub-3 minute event) and the 50k (a sub-3 hour event). Even the training volume only varies by a moderate degree.

On the other hand, the difference in VO2 Max, average physique, and top speed between elite runners who compete in the 200m and the 1500m is astounding. The training for each is profoundly different.


So yeah, unless you can distinguish more clearly between efforts in the 10 minute to 3 hour range, I'm going to say that endurance is any sustained effort over 2:00.

Last edited by Shane Skowron : 06-22-2010 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:31 PM   #42
Chris Mason
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Re: Jon Gilson Again Faster Article

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
I define endurance to be anything where the oxidative/aerobic/endurance energy system is primarily responsible for providing effort. Physiologically speaking, the glycolytic and phosphagen systems lose their dominance around 30 seconds of continuous effort and are completely dominated by the aerobic system within 2 minutes.

There is very little difference in VO2 Max, average physique, or top speed between elite runners who compete in the 1500m (a sub-3 minute event) and the 50k (a sub-3 hour event). Even the training volume only varies by a moderate degree.

On the other hand, the difference in VO2 Max, average physique, and top speed between elite runners who compete in the 200m and the 1500m is astounding. The training for each is profoundly different.


So yeah, unless you can distinguish more clearly between efforts in the 10 minute to 3 hour range, I'm going to say that endurance is any sustained effort over 2:00.
One thing to note is that I don't believe it is quite as clear cut as that. In other words, if I recall correctly, other than with extremely high intensity efforts the body switches between various energy systems throughout the course of exercise. I will have to double check this.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:55 AM   #43
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Jon Gilson Again Faster Article

http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...ling+for+power (WFS)

This was my original post back in '08... After playing around with it, I determined there were so many variables to actually calculating out my WODs that it was bogging me down. Unfortunately I DID NOT collect enough data to prove to myself that all workouts with an external weight should be done at 50% 1rm to provide BEST results. I did collect enough data to realize I didn't want to be collecting data.

I do still believe the Westside inspired methods of working at sub 40-50% to work speed and working above 50-60% to work strength, can be applied to WODs.

The major problems I ran into:

1) Calculating your Power Output with mixed gymnastics and weightlifting WODs...(like most of our most famous couplets) is laborious.

2) 1rm was constantly changing...and I found the novice factor as detailed in SS. While I may only have had a 195# Thruster (at the time)...The 50% rule indicated I was probably capable of 225# but just didn't have the confidence and technique to hit that weight yet. So I was routinely training UNDER my real "power zone". Had I reverse engineered from 50% of 1rm...I may or may not be really where you "should be" training.

3) I didn't have 1rm for every movement. What's your 1rm for KB Swings, SDHP, ANY DB movements (Push Press, Push Jerk), Hang Power Cln, Hang Sqt Cln...I ran into those movements and had nowhere to go and could not test all of them as I had done with Thrusters.

4) I improved anyway...Maybe I would've improved faster had I known exactly what weights to use...maybe not...but it didn't matter, I was satisfied with the results achieved without "nuking" it out. I started to think in terms of the time domains where the CF Firebreathers would finish the workout. This would help me determine what the PURPOSE of the WOD was...and then I could scale to that level of performance. That way I get the same stimulus they get. Sometimes you nail your scaling perfectly...most of the time you're off and wind up missing the time domain you were shooting for...

There was a much more detailed thread about this, that delved into some of the things we're talking about here...the one Joey P was referring too...I didn't see it in my initial search, if I can I'll dig it up later.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:16 AM   #44
Mike McGee
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Re: Jon Gilson Again Faster Article

Aushion, I agree with what you are saying. I'm a simple guy who loves CrossFit and is trying to get and be as fit as I can. To try to determine for every workout, the exact load I need to use can be as you stated laborious. I found what works best for me is to try to complete the WODs as recommended and keep detailed notes. Many of the WODs have dates to relate back to for comparison. If I haven't done the WOD before, I'll see if I have done the exercise/ lift before and so forth. I'll use my notes as a judgement on whether or not I need to scale and by how much.

Exact scaling for speed and power is great if you are training for an event or the games. For the average CrossFitter, I think do what you can and adjust as needed. I apply this same theory to my diet. I try to eat the best I can. I don't follow the Zone, but I probably would if my goal needed me to.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:18 AM   #45
Joey Powell
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Re: Jon Gilson Again Faster Article

one thing to consider about energy pathways is that after 30 seconds Phosphagen and glycolytic ARE not exhausted in a couplet or triplet. They are in a constant state of refresh between reps, sets, and exercises do to localized fatigue/recovery. Don't fall trap to thinking time is the lone variable to define metabolic pathways as a sense of application for an athletic event that has changing modalities.

also Greg A. going up in weight in Fran is much different than most. At that point he was going about as fast a cycle rate as possible, or at least completing sets unbroken. If you can not go unbroken with little rest between sets, you have no need to increase load.

As well, if your pull-ups are broken, you have little need to thrash yourself with heavier thrusters making your pull-ups more broken in an egotistic ideal to lift more weight on the thruster. Basically if adding weight to the thrusters makes your pull-ups worse than not, you are going to slow progress down unless at the previous weight your pull-up sets were unbroken.

Last edited by Joey Powell : 06-23-2010 at 09:28 AM.
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