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Old 01-24-2008, 02:42 PM   #21
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

What wasn't easy? I asked if you were referring specifically to O-lifters, which you just answered, and then clarified that the PL-OL comparison can't be made well. I didn't realize I was calling you out so offensively.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:16 PM   #22
Joey Powell
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

I read your post as implying what I had said. Not a question. Your post was rather in depth for the quality of my first post.

I just wanted to stay clear out of the way of PL vs OL thing around here and just clarify to Steven's comments that the conjugate method is not as effective because it is not widely used.

If fact it is beginning to be very widely used in American athletics, both professional and amateur, now that the info is out there on how to use it without having to read Russian or interpret Simmon's articles. Much like O-lifting is gaining some new found interest because of this little program called Crossfit. The internet has been a powerful tool.

Since I have used it very little, but with a lot of success without drugs, I would also add that it does work. I also was not as burned out as I was with Starting Strength. Just my take.

Last edited by Joey Powell : 01-24-2008 at 04:45 PM. Reason: bad grammar
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:58 PM   #23
Jake Oleander
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

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Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
If you did a little research into o-lifting trainging methods, you'd see it's true. http://tomgorman.moonfruit.com/ has a shortish write up on the system under "Training Intensity". It's not hard information to find..

It may seem silly, but training with the Bulgarian system is a full time job. Excessively high volume and intensity for their weightlifters.
excuse my slang. i know its true and i know that it produces amazing results, but that doesnt stop it from being silly to me as my body could in no way handle that kind of work load. i doubt you have the work capacity to lift heavy for 7 hours a day 7 days a week either
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:03 PM   #24
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

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i doubt you have the work capacity to lift heavy for 7 hours a day 7 days a week either
Jake - you're missing the key point here. The bulgarian system is NOT high in volume - it's actually quite low. They're not lifting 7 hrs/day. Not even close. They're lifting in brief bursts spread out over the course of the day, and they rarely if ever perform more than 2 reps. Even without pharmaceutical aid, this isn't actually that remarkable. Yes, they need to rest a lot in between sessions, and yes, they don't work, but it's not insane, and it's not that uncommon in the weightlifting world.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:37 PM   #25
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

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Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
I read your post as implying what I had said. Not a question. Your post was rather in depth for the quality of my first post.

I just wanted to stay clear out of the way of PL vs OL thing around here and just clarify to Steven's comments that the conjugate method is not as effective because it is not widely used.

If fact it is beginning to be very widely used in American athletics, both professional and amateur, now that the info is out there on how to use it without having to read Russian or interpret Simmon's articles. Much like O-lifting is gaining some new found interest because of this little program called Crossfit. The internet has been a powerful tool.

Since I have used it very little, but with a lot of success without drugs, I would also add that it does work. I also was not as burned out as I was with Starting Strength. Just my take.
I AM saying it's not as effective because it's not as widely used. That's true.

It's still very effective though.. especially for those of us that can't train every 30 minutes of the day.

I honestly don't see what you were arguing (if you were) with me about?
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:40 PM   #26
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

"Well, it's fairly obvious (well, maybe not) that it is not as effective. If it was it would be used more."

This is what I was talking about.

My point is that it is widely used in American athletics, and is growing evermore so. I am not sure why you think it is less effective. The Strongest power lifters in the world, for the most part, employ this method. Gear or not. Drugs or not.

it's effectiveness vs O-lifting as to developing explosiveness is an interesting discussion. There are plenty of elite speed and combine coaches that use the conjugate method vs olympic lifting. Mostly, from my understanding, as a result of effectiveness vs. time to practice.

I don't favor one over the other for this purpose for the general public.

I will qualify that using the box squat in both the Max Effort and Dynamic Effort formats has dramatically effected my ability to explosively open and shut the hip. Something that oly-lifting was not able to do for me. Because of this, I enjoy the oly-lifts much more now and I am starting to see positive results from those as well, where I could not get those to progress before.

So in my case, the conjugate method was much more effective for developing power. I did not need a coach either. Some videos on EliteFTS and Youtube taught me enough with some articles. Perhaps with proper instruction the o-lifts would have been better. That has not a reasonable option though.

The problem I see, is that people are quick to definitively shout it down, either without using it or because they favor something else, then they play the drug and gear cards. Yup, lots of power lifters use vitamin S, however many don't and many lift raw. They use this method and it works.

Last edited by Joey Powell : 01-24-2008 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:46 PM   #27
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

Yeah... that's true...

If it was more effective than Bulgarian method then oly weightlifters would employ it. However, again, not all of us have the time to do lifting every 30-60 minutes... Again, this is *assuming* the program is geared towards Oly not powerlifting or whatever else there is (aka the thread topic).

Bulgarian cycles could be better for PL than something like conjugate periodization, but I don't really know of any studies or whatever done on that so I can't comment.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:55 PM   #28
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

Yep, part of my original question was hoping for a little bit of a history lesson.

So, did the Soviets use the conjugate method for a period of time before switching to the Bulgarian method for olympic lifting?

My impression from reading various internet stuff (risky I know) was that the conjugate method was originally developed for olympic lifters and Louie read this stuff and "converted" it for his purposes (i.e. powerlifting).


So, assuming a person didn't have all day to train (albeit low volume, but mostly just the time required)...would the conjugate method be preferable for olympic lifting?


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Old 01-24-2008, 08:05 PM   #29
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

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So, assuming a person didn't have all day to train (albeit low volume, but mostly just the time required)...would the conjugate method be preferable for olympic lifting?
Maybe. Optimal excluding Bulgarian? Don't know. There quite a few forms of periodization that work (cause obviously it's a fairly effective protocol). It also depends on how much time you can get in the gym as well.

Basically, if you're fairly advanced you probably need some form of periodization to progress excluding Bulgarian cycles.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:44 PM   #30
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Re: Westside and olympic lifting

BTW, here are the two articles mentioned by Dan:

http://elitefts.com/documents/period...le__part_1.htm

http://elitefts.com/documents/period...le__part_2.htm


W/F/S



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