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Old 08-05-2010, 08:07 AM   #31
John Swanson
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
The idea here is to become a better hockey player not a better exerciser. So the question to ask is would you benefit more from the maximal strength the deadlift would add or the explosive strength the clean would add.

Obviously that is a more difficult question than it appears on its face and one that I can't answer for you. You should consider that the deadlift is easy and the returns are almost immediate. Meaning that there are few things easier to learn than bending over and picking something up. So you will lose very little trianing time learning a new skill. Also the clean is difficult and complex. There may be a learning curve for proper technique in which returns are slow. This means you will actually lose training time while perfecting your form.

Also, you mentioned box squats which can have two very different meaning. The first is not acutally a box squat at all but for some reason it has become cool to call it that. It is rather a "bumper butt" type squat in which the lifter touches his butt to the box to ensure proper depth. Think of it as the trianing wheels for squats. The other true meaning of the box squat is the westside style of releasing the hips and exploding up.

If you are doing the latter you are already training for explosiveness in the hips so you may not even need the clean. On the other hand, I believe the clean is a superior movement in creating and training explosiveness if the form foundation is there. But again, you have to answer the question about form. Are you weak in the clean because of form flaws or because it is under trained?

All this, and a million other things should be considered when programming. It is complicated to reach the conclusion of "shut up and train"
We do the Westside BB style of Box Squat. We also change our height on the box every week. Some days we are at 90, some days we are way below and some it is a 1/4 squat, just depending on what it calls for that day. We also do cleans but i haven't gone to heavy because I had a pretty nasty wrist injury so I have implemented more box squats that clean of late because it is easier on my wrist. We do Jerks but I feel my shoulder flexibility is poor which is due to a dislocated shoulder back in college.

It also should be note that I have trouble OH Squatting the bar. With only having 3 months of time to do real training and I know my OH Squat is my biggest weakness and I should be working on it. Buttttt I have a hard time wanting to sit and work on OH Squat because my time is so limited.

Also I wouldn't consider our program strength bias at all. With Cleans, Box Squats done regularly, I feel we are more of a OLY bias with strength exercises coming secondary.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:12 PM   #32
Eric Lester
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

I am with Skibicki and Lincoln. If your deadlift progress has slowed to only increasing every couple of weeks it may be monopolizing too much training time for only a small reward.

Also agree with Lincoln that working on your hang clean could contribute more to speed. Also your jerk is rather low compared to your lower body numbers. Extra strength work may reap more rewards here, but I am not sure how it will carry over into hockey. (No ice hockey in Western Kentucky!)
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:57 PM   #33
Chris Mason
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

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Originally Posted by John Swanson View Post
I didn't say I was strong I simply wanted to know at what point should I just maintain my 1 rep max. Meaning if i get my one rep max to 500, is that sufficient enough to just maintain and then focus on my hang clean and so forth going up. I work on everything but for some reason my dead lift keeps rising easily.

Also the other reason I ask was... My dead lift is is 60 pounds heavier than any other guy on my team. So it got me thinking that maybe its time to maybe move the DL to the back burner and focus more on other exercises.
Ok, then do that. Why ask?
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:43 PM   #34
Drew Cloutier
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

This may sound weird, but considering all the talk of you are only as strong as your weakest link...why not any pushing work (push press, shoulder press, incline bench, etc) I see only lower body work, wouldn't some upper body strength help when jokeying for the puck, and pushing/shoving?

I concur with others on working explosiveness.

also something else you can look at to make your dead more challenging...don't use the switch grip (over/under) use double over hand grip, its more difficult.

and what level hockey do you play? position? just wondering since 172 is not particularly big for a hockey player.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:12 PM   #35
Matthew Payne
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

I think for someone of your weight and the fact that you play hockey.....your strength is good. You are pressing 185? That is enough I would think to push most hockey players around assuming you have got good explosive strength. That DL is good also. Do you feel the need to be stronger? do you feel it will make you better?
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:48 PM   #36
John Swanson
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

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Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier View Post
This may sound weird, but considering all the talk of you are only as strong as your weakest link...why not any pushing work (push press, shoulder press, incline bench, etc) I see only lower body work, wouldn't some upper body strength help when jokeying for the puck, and pushing/shoving?

I concur with others on working explosiveness.

also something else you can look at to make your dead more challenging...don't use the switch grip (over/under) use double over hand grip, its more difficult.

and what level hockey do you play? position? just wondering since 172 is not particularly big for a hockey player.
K I said earlier that I didn't want to right up every lift. But since you asked I can post them. I didnt wanna type up every upper body movement but here is last weeks lifts.

Monday
Box Squat 5x5 (set new PR)
Dips 5xAMRP
Full Glute Ham Raises 3 x 15

21-15-9 of:
One arm KB power snatch LT - 45lbs
One arm KB power snatch RT - 45lbs
Toes to Bar

Tuesday

Dead Lift 5 RM

Ring Pull Ups 3 x max reps (3 mins rest)

Hang Cleans 5 x 3 @185

200 Double Unders for time

Wednesday
1 Mile Run
10 Rounds of:
100 ft OH Walk @95lbs
1 Mile Run

Thursday
Front Squat 5x5

Press 5x5

21-15-9
DB Swing
Clap Push Up
KTE

Friday
Hang Clean to Jerk 7x3

HGD 5x15

Muscle Ups 5x5
OR
Pull Ups 5x15
Dips 5x15

I play center and left wing and I play the point on the power play. My weight is irrelevant to the conversion and only posted it for comparison to my DL. I don't get pushed around on the ice at all but I always want to improve my speed and strength.

The only reason I asked because at a certain point a heavy DL isn't going to help you. I'm trying to find that line.

Also you refer to the grip, last time I test my DL at 5rm I switch my grip every time just so it was different.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:43 PM   #37
Drew Cloutier
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

Like I said still very little pushing movements, most bodyweight stuff as opposed to all the posterior chain and oly lifts, that are weighted.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:35 PM   #38
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: When to stop Dead Lifting

To add to what drew said, there is little in the way of strength work for the upper body. Its all high rep with one day of 5x5 presses.
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