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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-04-2004, 09:53 AM   #201
Graham Hayes
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You're right Geoff that is very inspiring, although I think I'll pass on doing pull-ups 'till my biceps rip! Ouch! But I will go for how many pull-ups I can do in one hour tomorrow, I'm going to estimate 150.
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:07 PM   #202
Geoff Sample
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Graham - good personal challenge, and good luck reaching your mark (150). Keep us posted!

Ben Gimball - Excellent. You sir, without a doubt, are one for the books. Thanks for setting me straight about the Marine Corps erroneous press release. I wish you luck in your training!
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:14 PM   #203
Ralph
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Geoff,

Which group do I have to join in Yahoo in order to view that second link?

About the Marine... 239 in hour is about 4 pull-ups per minute. That doesn't sound all too bad. (though I'm sure I couldn't pull it off... yet).

Thanks,
Ralph
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:26 PM   #204
John Frazer
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Ben,

I, too, am intrigued by your program. I've tried several different ones (high reps/negatives/low reps/weighted pullups) and the only one that seemed to increase my max has been to do a pullup (or a few) every time I go upstairs where my pullup bar is.

This usually gets me a couple hard days of training on the weekend, and a couple days of active rest mid-week. I skip it if I feel sore or if there are lots of pullups in the WOD.

If you have a better plan, please let me know. I'm 38 years old, 6'2", 185 lbs. and can currently do only 3-4 pullups. I've always had trouble building upper body strength, and have been laying off pullups specifically because my right elbow hurts if I do them with palms facing inward, but I'm going to work on some self-therapy and icing for that.

John
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:28 PM   #205
Paul "The Viking"
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Apparently, Jack Lalanne did 1000 pushups and 1000 pullups in 82 minutes on his 45th birthday, which sure seems like a bigger deal than 239 pullups in 60 minutes! Of course, there's no mention of the style in which they were performed (dead hang or not,) but its still rather amazing.

When looking for his training methods, I found the following website where he's interviewed by a new age, "natural foods" person who he puts in his place about the intensity of cardio:

Share Guide: I go to the gym in the morning before work, around 7 am.

Jack LaLanne: Do you work with the weights?

Share Guide: Sometimes. I start with 30 minutes on the treadmill or stairmaster.

Jack LaLanne: Twelve to seventeen minutes is plenty on the treadmill--if it's done fast. That's all you need for cardiovascular benefit. You don't need to spend that extra time unless you are over weight and you need to burn off extra calories.

Share Guide: How fast do I need to go on the treadmill?

Jack LaLanne: Do it vigorously, like somebody is chasing you. You've got to do it hard. Otherwise, if you just take it easy and do it longer, you are spending all that time when you don't need it. Use that extra time with your weights instead. Focus on your problem zones, your strength, your energy, your flexibility and all the rest. Maybe your chest is flabby or your hips or waist need toning. Also, you should change your program every thirty days. That's the key.

Here's the link:
http://www.shareguide.com/LaLanne.html

Even though his methods aren't quite the same, Jack Lalanne is definitely CrossFit!

-Paul
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:46 PM   #206
Geoff Sample
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I agree that 4 pullups per minute every minute for an hour doesn't sound all that bad, and I wasn't holding it up as the ultimate human achievment. Maybe some members of this group can do more, and that is fantastic. Consider the first time you saw a WOD. Didn't look that bad either, right? Try it - beat it, learn from it, or find a way to use it if you want, or evict it from your memory as an unworthy effort if you prefer.

This is part of the value I was hoping to provide. If you see a goal (40 pullups, anyone?) that you think you can reach, it can be very motivating. If you pursue it, you'll get closer than you were when you started. If you do 150 pullups in an hour or 270 or whatever, and you attempted this to prove something to yourself, or to accomplish a self-made goal, then the article served a valuable purpose - not in making an idol out of the individual described therein, but in providing an impetus for your own effort.

The Yahoo group is STREND. Coach has written a little bit about this in a previous CrossFit Journal, and it's a good competition. Go here and you can view the recent posts. The pullup video is in the "files" section.

The guy in the video does not seem to be professing to be the all-time pullup guru. I hope his effort provides you with something good you can apply to your own training (i.e. some helpful form tips, or motivates you in some way to improve your own numbers). Train hard!
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Old 03-04-2004, 03:54 PM   #207
Q
 
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Ben,

Actually, I want to be the first (?) to thank you for your patience and persistence in replying promptly to the board members' questions. If anything, whether any of us agree or disagree, I think that the time you have spent answering our questions is something unquestionable, and without a doubt, to be respected. My observation is that the length and frequency of your answers show that here is someone who cares about dialogue, and the exchange of true information/analysis. A man after Socrates' own heart. In case you haven't heard it yet, welcome to the board! I'm glad you have stuck it through and stood up for yourself. It does take a lot of courage to answer to heated criticism, as I think many of us can attest to. Most of us just happen to be on the giving end this time <smirk>. I want you to feel acknowledged on this board. And whether or not we admit it, I think we do need people to stir things up here once in a while. Like a friend of mine said, "maybe it's healthy to offend a few people every once in a while, to make sure there's still a pulse."

Now that you've mentioned it, I think it is curious how many of us (including me) have noted that there is no magical program to gain pull-ups, and yet here we are, trying to get you to divulge your program. I thought about that, and although there seems to be an inconsistency here, maybe our actions can be explained somehow. Sure, every program "works." But what does "work" mean? Does it mean merely reaching the target number over an unspecified period of time? If that's true, then consistency, as Coach has mentioned, would indeed be the biggest key. For if I work at it long enough, I'm sure to get to that elusive number, *eventually*, through the plateaus and all. But I think the folks here, myself included, are not satisfied with that definition of "work." When we say work, we're thinking of *how fast* we can reach a certain target number. Merely "working" isn't enough anymore; it has to work fast enough for our goal to be reached in the time we've given ourselves to reach it. The question then becomes whether one program is more efficient or faster at developing results than another. I think this is why there is discussion about programs at all. Not that we question any of them "works," but rather, whether any of them work faster than the other.

It sounds like you're pretty swamped with requests for help, Ben. I think I will take the better path of researching on my own, like you did before (and are doing now, I'm sure). I do think it is more exciting that way, to have to struggle and discover something for myself, rather than simply asking for the answers like the impatient consumers we're accustomed to being in America. Although if you can ask and get for free, why not, right? That's why I'm here in the first place!
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Old 03-04-2004, 05:22 PM   #208
Ben Gimball
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Q,

That is one of the finest posts that I have read on any board!
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Old 03-04-2004, 06:05 PM   #209
Kevin Roddy
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Ben, Barry,

I think you're both pretty cool guys. It's nice to see that this standoff has come to an end, or at least an agreement to lay off for the time being, hah.

Now, let's really get down to discussing pullups. Ben, while I don't need you to post your training philosophy, as you have given adequate reason why not to, I would like to ask you - why, specifically, do you feel that other programs are inadequate? Take GTG - What exactly is it (scientifically, or at least close) that makes GTG an inefficient program?

:happy:

-Kevin
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Old 03-04-2004, 06:43 PM   #210
Geoff Sample
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"Q" wrote: I think it is curious how many of us (including me) have noted that there is no magical program to gain pull-ups, and yet here we are, trying to get you to divulge your program.

I say: asking someone to substantiate their grand claims through more than vague pronouncements is not the same as hoping for a magic bullet. It is an indicator that the person willing to ask the question does not consider him or herself the ultimate authority and is willing to consider another approach. Many times in asking the question you learn nothing, sometimes you learn a lot. Spending time communicating with other trainees constitutes individual research, no less than spending time with a coach or reading a book (although it is undoubtedly difficult to guage the actual value of contributions made by anonymous or pseudonymous participants on the Internet).

A person who is unwilling to rise to the challenge of explaining a training method claimed to be superior is not employing Socratic reasoning, but is rather avoiding scrutiny of their approach.
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