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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #21
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post

Who cares if he can do kipping pull ups, or toes to nose or whatever
Actually Spencer can do kipping pull ups quite well, as well as regular pullups...and toes to nose as well. He can also do a standing backflip, throw a football further than about anyone I have ever seen, and run an NFL 3-cone drill as well or better than some guys bound for the NFL. And he is a good armwrestler as well.

But, I don't see why this has to be a Spencer vs Crossfit thing. Any decent crossfitter would beat Spencer in a typical crossfit workout. I don't see how there would be any doubt on that.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:50 PM   #22
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Shane Jensen View Post

Spencer's goal is to lift as much weight as possible in the snatch and clean and jerk. In training to do so its allowed him to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times, faster than anyone who has attempted to do so.

Rob Orlando, Dan Bailey, and Chris Spealler all have a goal of being competitive at Crossfit. They're not training to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times. Dan Bailey and Chris Spealler can clean and jerk 135 lbs 30 times, faster than two guys who outweigh them from 40-80 lbs. Whether or not you assign value to clean and jerking 135 pounds 30 times (since I can see you making the argument of "who cares, its only 135") really really fast is irrelevant. They do, that's what they're training to do.
I think you make a great point, you cant train for everything. And you are gonna be your best at what you DO train for.

But I have a question, one that is interesting to me at least.

Let us say that you take 3 men of identical physical talent, train them each for 2 years. One is trained exclusively for the ultimate physical endurance feat, to walk as far as they can in a 48 hour forced march, while carrying a 90lb pack.

Another is trained exclusively to get time on fran as low as possible.

The third trains exclusively to achieve a set of 20 squats with 500lbs.

Then, each man is tested by attempting all three physical feats.

Which man will be judged as more fit all around in this scenario?
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #23
Michael Loucas
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
I think you make a great point, you cant train for everything. And you are gonna be your best at what you DO train for.

But I have a question, one that is interesting to me at least.

Let us say that you take 3 men of identical physical talent, train them each for 2 years. One is trained exclusively for the ultimate physical endurance feat, to walk as far as they can in a 48 hour forced march, while carrying a 90lb pack.

Another is trained exclusively to get time on fran as low as possible.

The third trains exclusively to achieve a set of 20 squats with 500lbs.

Then, each man is tested by attempting all three physical feats.

Which man will be judged as more fit all around in this scenario?
This example is probably irrelevant, but I'd have to say the squatter, hands down. If he only squats and never attempts a pullup (which is silly) he won't finish Fran, so he'd have to practice at least pullups.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:01 PM   #24
Shane Jensen
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

Undoubtedly it would be the strong guy.

Honestly though (not saying that this is what you're hinting at) I'm really not interested in going down the "what is the best measure of fitness?" rabbit hole which is why I made note of the fact in my initial post that I was probably going to regret even getting involved in this thread.

I thought Spencer's Grace video was awesome (I think all of the videos that you guys post are awesome), however I also thought Dan Bailey's 1:02 Grace video was awesome. You may or may not agree. Ryan may or may not agree, and that's fine.

It comes down to what I said earlier, that your goals are your goals. Spencer, Jon, and Donny all train to support their goals. Orlando, Bailey, and Spealler train to support their's.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #25
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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This example is probably irrelevant, but I'd have to say the squatter, hands down. If he only squats and never attempts a pullup (which is silly) he won't finish Fran, so he'd have to practice at least pullups.
Of course the example is silly, lol. but I think it gets to the heart of what folks who say that strength is king are thinking.

And that is that too much training directly for conditioning will keep you from getting very strong. and in the end this prevents you from being any more "ready for anything" than if you just went and put a couple of hundred pounds on your squat and played some touch football on the weekend.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #26
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Undoubtedly it would be the strong guy.

Honestly though (not saying that this is what you're hinting at) I'm really not interested in going down the "what is the best measure of fitness?" rabbit hole which is why I made note of the fact in my initial post that I was probably going to regret even getting involved in this thread.

I thought Spencer's Grace video was awesome (I think all of the videos that you guys post are awesome), however I also thought Dan Bailey's 1:02 Grace video was awesome. You may or may not agree. Ryan may or may not agree, and that's fine.

It comes down to what I said earlier, that your goals are your goals. Spencer, Jon, and Donny all train to support their goals. Orlando, Bailey, and Spealler train to support their's.
I don't think I m going down quite THAT rabbit hole... and, if you must know I think a 1:02 grace is unfreaking believable and awesome as hell. So is a 4 minute mile or a fast marathon. And the guys who even complete the tour de france are impressive as hell, monsters really.

But you have to admit that there is a pretty strong "ready for anything anytime, Im gonna survive when the zombies come" element in crossfit. Or at least it seems like it to me.

And, the human body could be called upon to do such a wide variety of things in an emergency, from walking for days with little or no sleep, to a life or death 1 rep log lift where your wife dies if you cant lift it off her. And so, there is really no way to "train for anything", and given that, maybe the way to best cover all your bases is actually to just get really strong and stay in reasonable shape.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #27
Shane Jensen
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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But you have to admit that there is a pretty strong "ready for anything anytime, Im gonna survive when the zombies come" element in crossfit. Or at least it seems like it to me.
I suppose so. It really isn't my thing, but that idea is definitely there for some people.

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there is really no way to "train for anything",
I would agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
the way to best cover all your bases is actually to just get really strong and stay in reasonable shape.
Which is what I try my best to do with my own training, and given that we seem to be at some sort of accord here I think I'm going to check out of this thread and go back and watch some more of your guys' videos.

I'm thinking that is going to be a little more of a productive outlet towards my finally snatching 210 next Saturday.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #28
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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I suppose so. It really isn't my thing, but that idea is definitely there for some people.



I would agree with this.



Which is what I try my best to do with my own training, and given that we seem to be at some sort of accord here I think I'm going to check out of this thread and go back and watch some more of your guys' videos.

I'm thinking that is going to be a little more of a productive outlet towards my finally snatching 210 next Saturday.
Good luck on getting that snatch my friend.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #29
Sean Dunston
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Does Rob Orlando (the only person from the Crossfit community to have done this, so I assume he's the point of comparison) really qualify as an "underweight crossfitter?"


Good grief, people.

Haters gonna hate.
Nice work Spencer.
Nice work Rob.

Can we move on now?
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #30
Ryan R Johnson
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Shane Jensen View Post
I don't think that training strength in particular is specialization, I train strength every time I'm at the gym. I think though you'd be foolish to make the argument though that you can't specialize in it which is what Spencer, Donny, Jon and the rest of the guys at Cal Strength are doing.

My point (and I think you're still missing this) is that one should train using methods that best position them to accomplish their goals.

Spencer's goal is to lift as much weight as possible in the snatch and clean and jerk. In training to do so its allowed him to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times, faster than anyone who has attempted to do so.

Rob Orlando, Dan Bailey, and Chris Spealler all have a goal of being competitive at Crossfit. They're not training to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times. Dan Bailey and Chris Spealler can clean and jerk 135 lbs 30 times, faster than two guys who outweigh them from 40-80 lbs. Whether or not you assign value to clean and jerking 135 pounds 30 times (since I can see you making the argument of "who cares, its only 135") really really fast is irrelevant. They do, that's what they're training to do.

Reading your last post though you seem like you're edging close to starting to rant, so I think I'm going to check out of this thread.
I am getting your point completely Spencer. I'm not trying to rant. Just passionately stimulating conversation.lol
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