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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:44 AM   #11
Michael Loucas
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Shane Jensen View Post
Does Rob Orlando (the only person from the Crossfit community to have done this, so I assume he's the point of comparison) really qualify as an "underweight crossfitter?"
No, I wasn't referring to Rob at all. He's a beast. More referring to the 6'3 170 lb crossfitters who are slow on the heavier metcons, so their solution is to do more metcons.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:54 AM   #12
Ryan R Johnson
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Angry Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Michael Loucas View Post
I think what he is telling us, is that all these underweight crossfitters (less than 200 lbs, depending on height) would be able to help their metcon time if they were to put on some serious bodyweight by doing some kind of specific strength training for awhile, while eating everything in sight, then going back to crossfit.

Or maybe he is saying that just O-lifting is superior to crossfit. Who knows.

BINGO!! On the first part. It's all what you want out of it.. Fly through bodyweight metcons like a dancing singing sprite... Or beast metcons with 3x the PR

Who cares if he can do kipping pull ups, or toes to nose or whatever, that dude can move a house. And at his strength level , despite being a chunky individual, I'm sure he is quite healthy .


I would pretty much guarantee he can put more heat on a softball than most people here. When you have that kind of systemic strength it translates to a lot of things.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:03 PM   #13
Ryan R Johnson
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Frances Ballesteros View Post
Sure, it's impressive, but what's his fran time? Can he throw a softball?
You probably wear LuLu Lemon and knee high socks. Just a guess.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:09 PM   #14
Shane Jensen
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post
It's all what you want out of it..
I'm probably going to regret making this post, but you're absolutely right about this. However it goes both ways and I think you're ignoring that.

As impressive as what Spencer did was (and it was awesome) clean and jerking 303 pounds 30 times isn't really a "Crossfit workout". Its a workout that a top Crossfitter did, but its not what the top level Crossfitters train to do.

There are videos available on Youtube of both Donny Shankle and Jon North actually doing Grace as written. Both guys finish in about 1:45. There's another video of Dan Bailey doing Grace in 1:02 at a bodyweight 40-70 lbs lighter than either guy. Chris Spealler who is outweighed by those guys by 50-80 lbs has a 1:44 Grace on his games page.

Does this mean that Donny or Jon are "unfit" or "unathletic"? Of course it doesn't.

Jon, Donny, and Spencer are better at what they do and specialize in (cleaning, snatching, and squatting amazingly heavy weight). Dan, Chris and other top Crossfitters are better at what they specialize in. I don't get why this is seemingly so difficult for some people to comprehend.
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Last edited by Shane Jensen : 04-15-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:11 PM   #15
Frances Ballesteros
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post
You probably wear LuLu Lemon and knee high socks. Just a guess.
Wow! way to take offense, specially when it's sarcasm we're speaking of

PS. Wtf is "LuLu Lemon"?
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:22 PM   #16
Paulo Santos
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post
BINGO!! On the first part. It's all what you want out of it.. Fly through bodyweight metcons like a dancing singing sprite... Or beast metcons with 3x the PR

Who cares if he can do kipping pull ups, or toes to nose or whatever, that dude can move a house. And at his strength level , despite being a chunky individual, I'm sure he is quite healthy .


I would pretty much guarantee he can put more heat on a softball than most people here. When you have that kind of systemic strength it translates to a lot of things.
I do agree that strength is very important. Matter of fact, after nutrition, strength is the most important on my list, but I also wouldn't want to be a specialist in a certain area. Ideally, I'd like to be well balanced and so would most people that follow CrossFit.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:42 PM   #17
Ryan R Johnson
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Thumbs up Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Shane Jensen View Post
I'm probably going to regret making this post, but you're absolutely right about this. However it goes both ways and I think you're ignoring that.

As impressive as what Spencer did was (and it was awesome) clean and jerking 303 pounds 30 times isn't really a "Crossfit workout". Its a workout that a top Crossfitter did, but its not what the top level Crossfitters train to do.

There are videos available on Youtube of both Donny Shankle and Jon North actually doing Grace as written. Both guys finish in about 1:45. There's another video of Dan Bailey doing Grace in 1:02 at a bodyweight 40-70 lbs lighter than either guy. Chris Spealler who is outweighed by those guys by 50-80 lbs has a 1:44 Grace on his games page.

Does this mean that Donny or Jon are "unfit" or "unathletic"? Of course it doesn't.

Jon, Donny, and Spencer are better at what they do and specialize in (cleaning, snatching, and squatting amazingly heavy weight). Dan, Chris and other top Crossfitters are better at what they specialize in. I don't get why this is seemingly so difficult for some people to comprehend.

I absolutely agree. I think that periods of specialization are necessary to achieve progress as an all around athlete. A scenario, which actually happened to me follows;

-Average athletic guy discovers crossfit. (main site or generic box crossfit)
-Wods out for months to a year.
-Hits a wall and Rx weights are manageable but hard
-Doesn't progress

-Researches and discovers the key to better metcons is to increase strength.
-Embarks on a well thought out strength program
-Abandons metcons temporarily
-Strength increases
-Adds In conditioning and sport.. Yet finds metcons too taxing and interfere with strength gains
-Uses sport and sprints/stair climbs/ and walks as conditioning
-Starts beasting in his sport due to new found strength
-Competes in physical challenges and the rare occasional wod with those who ---crossfit and finds that he performs at a higher level than those that crossfit regularly .
-starts to theorize that wods and metcons may be a good test of conditioning, but possibly not the best means to get there
-realizes that he is not 15 pounds heavier, stronger and in better condition then when he was following crossfit programming.
- it dawns on him that this is what football players have been doing since the dawn of time. LOL.


And he can now throw a softball faster and harder than he ever has.

See, a lot of folks are saying that strength is a specialization..but strength translates to everything.
That's the whole point I'm making .
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #18
Ryan R Johnson
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
I do agree that strength is very important. Matter of fact, after nutrition, strength is the most important on my list, but I also wouldn't want to be a specialist in a certain area. Ideally, I'd like to be well balanced and so would most people that follow CrossFit.
Why not? You want to be okay at everything. Why not be a god in one thing?

That's the problem. There's such pride here in being a jack of all trades, master of none. But your videos doing grace will never be circulated on forums..

Dan gable
Michael Jordan
Mike Tyson
Jesse owens

We all know these guys. Absolute gods in one thing.
But do you mean to tell me These guys can't function in normal life. Who gives a **** what Michael Jordan's Fran time would be?!?

The crossfitter who succeed in the games DO specialize in one thing. That's why they win. Watch their performances and look for their specialization. You will find it.

Not specializing in anything is accepting mediocrity
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:59 PM   #19
Shane Jensen
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post
See, a lot of folks are saying that strength is a specialization..but strength translates to everything.
That's the whole point I'm making .
I don't think that training strength in particular is specialization, I train strength every time I'm at the gym. I think though you'd be foolish to make the argument though that you can't specialize in it which is what Spencer, Donny, Jon and the rest of the guys at Cal Strength are doing.

My point (and I think you're still missing this) is that one should train using methods that best position them to accomplish their goals.

Spencer's goal is to lift as much weight as possible in the snatch and clean and jerk. In training to do so its allowed him to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times, faster than anyone who has attempted to do so.

Rob Orlando, Dan Bailey, and Chris Spealler all have a goal of being competitive at Crossfit. They're not training to clean and jerk 303 lbs 30 times. Dan Bailey and Chris Spealler can clean and jerk 135 lbs 30 times, faster than two guys who outweigh them from 40-80 lbs. Whether or not you assign value to clean and jerking 135 pounds 30 times (since I can see you making the argument of "who cares, its only 135") really really fast is irrelevant. They do, that's what they're training to do.

Reading your last post though you seem like you're edging close to starting to rant, so I think I'm going to check out of this thread.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:03 PM   #20
Paulo Santos
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Re: 300 lb Grace (not Rob Orlando)

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Originally Posted by Ryan R Johnson View Post
Why not? You want to be okay at everything. Why not be a god in one thing?

That's the problem. There's such pride here in being a jack of all trades, master of none. But your videos doing grace will never be circulated on forums..

Dan gable
Michael Jordan
Mike Tyson
Jesse owens

We all know these guys. Absolute gods in one thing.
But do you mean to tell me These guys can't function in normal life. Who gives a **** what Michael Jordan's Fran time would be?!?

The crossfitter who succeed in the games DO specialize in one thing. That's why they win. Watch their performances and look for their specialization. You will find it.

Not specializing in anything is accepting mediocrity
That's because not all of us have the same goals. I don't compete in CrossFit nor Powerlifting. I just want to be in great shape for work. That is my main goal. I want to be strong as I can, but I also want to have great cardio.
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