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Old 05-06-2010, 11:06 AM   #21
Thomas Green
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Originally Posted by Ian Nigh View Post
.... except it is no longer a pull.
Kipping "pullups" don't exactly involve a pull either (well, a horizontal one)...
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:20 AM   #22
Casey Raiford
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
YOu were there? I was there judging too.. hah.

------------

ANyway, there shouldn't be hate..

However, I would say train anything. As CF is GPP people tend to specialize their pullups too much.

If you can do kipping, strict, chin over bar, chest to bar, abs to bars, supinated, mixed grip, pronated, etc.

You have a significant advantage if anything weird comes up in WODs... which is the whole purpose of GPP.

Don't specialize with something when you may get owned if your version of pullups doesn't pass the standards somewhere.
No kidding? I was on the chipper, in the middle of the stations.

------------------------------------------------------

I've been on a minor tangent lately to ascertain what the training value of butterfly kiping and so far I've found nothing. I'm not saying that it's without value, not at all. I just want to know what it is. Call it professional curiosity.

I've found videos showing that it's faster, slower and neither. The stimulus isn't radically different than (for lack of a better term) regular kipping. Ditto a strict gymnastic kip. I've found a few snippets here and there, but otherwise it's a sea of butterfly tutorials. Like I said, I'm not against BFK.

In my box we train over a continuum of pullups. All kinds of grips, weighted, body weight, max reps and sub-max sets. Our key point in training is not to get better in any one of them, but to develop a broad spectrum [i]capability[i] in every context. This one happens to be moving the body in a short vertical plane relative to an overhead anchor point.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:40 PM   #23
Ryan Anderson
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Originally Posted by Casey Raiford View Post
No kidding? I was on the chipper, in the middle of the stations.

------------------------------------------------------

I've been on a minor tangent lately to ascertain what the training value of butterfly kiping and so far I've found nothing. I'm not saying that it's without value, not at all. I just want to know what it is. Call it professional curiosity.

I've found videos showing that it's faster, slower and neither. The stimulus isn't radically different than (for lack of a better term) regular kipping. Ditto a strict gymnastic kip. I've found a few snippets here and there, but otherwise it's a sea of butterfly tutorials. Like I said, I'm not against BFK.

In my box we train over a continuum of pullups. All kinds of grips, weighted, body weight, max reps and sub-max sets. Our key point in training is not to get better in any one of them, but to develop a broad spectrum [i]capability[i] in every context. This one happens to be moving the body in a short vertical plane relative to an overhead anchor point.
Wow this thread is blowing up, hopefully I have enough time to rebuttal a few points, and Ill start with this one. For me personally, in the realm of 0-5 pull ups its a crap shoot between the butterfly and the kip, because getting the butterfly going occasionally is a problem. however, anything from 5-25, my butterfly is 1.5 to 2x as fast as the normal kip. Watch the first 15-20 seconds for a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9inbK_e73vE (link is WFS). On the far right is me, and i know its a little hard to see but my pull ups end at :23. The next person to get off is at :27. A full 4 second difference, on only 20 pull ups. Unfortunately I do not currently have my parents copy of the video, which clearly shows the position of my how far up and down I actually went. the other copy of the video that clearly shows my body position through the full butterfly. Hopefully my picture attachment will work, which shows my chin clearly passing the plane of the bar, and almost hitting my chest on the bar.

As for judging the butterfly pull up, there simply needs to be one reasonable standard that the competition allows for pull ups, and then prep the judges on how to judge basic pull ups. From the basic standards the judge should be able to determine whether or not the rep counts and why. For example, for the competition in which the video is from, my chin had to clearly pass the plane of the bar. My judge stood at the side of the pull up rig, and watched to see if I was high enough.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:41 PM   #24
Ryan Anderson
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Old 05-06-2010, 01:11 PM   #25
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

I agree with the aforementioned notion to at least be familiar with all forms of pull-ups...

As for carry-over I have two things:

1) I feel much less tired in the arms after 30 butterfly pull ups than 30 kipping

2) I believe my butterfly pull-up directly helped with my Wheels (push-up variation) and my butterfly dip (I don't think people mention the butterfly dip much because I think 95% of you guys would think it was sacrilegious )
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #26
Casey Raiford
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

Thanks for getting my point, Aushion.

I can see the stamina piece, I'd add agility and coordination to the list. That's a start.

As for butterfly dips, all I could find on that was a belly dancing move. I watched the video and tried it. It's not too demanding.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:31 PM   #27
Ian Nigh
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

The overall work capacity/power output model is an argument in favor of butterflies, if they are indeed faster. But YMMV.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:47 PM   #28
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Butterfly dip?
Do you mean your swinging dips? We just call those swinging dips.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:01 AM   #29
Brock Wilson
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

Although I see the poster's general point, I'd respectfully disagree with the contention that kipping pullups are more akin to jumping pullups than strict ones, mostly because the act of touching the ground transfers the load out of the hands. Jumping pullups elicit a purely aerobic effect when I do them, that is to say, I get little to no localized muscle fatigue. Not so with kipping pullups, where fatigue in the lats, rhomboids, biceps and gripping muscles is my limiting factor. Granted I am breathing harder with say 30 kipping pullups vs 20 strict pullups with probably equal muscle fatigue, but continue on that spectrum; to hit the ground just takes things too aerobic in my experience.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:58 AM   #30
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Whats with the hate on the butterfly pull up?

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Do you mean your swinging dips? We just call those swinging dips.
I will get video...
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