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Old 01-17-2010, 08:37 AM   #11
Jay Ashman
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

IMO combining 5/3/1 with a conditioning program is almost a no-brainer. The program itself is brief and lends itself to a lot of leeway in programming assistance exercises and metcons.

Here's how I would program mine for a sample 5/3/1 block. I am going to be starting this up next Sunday by the way...

1 - Press/Lateral raises/5-10 minute metcon
2 - sprints/weighted vest sprints/longer metcon (either or)/GHD Raises or Good mornings
3 - rest
4 - deadlifts/5-10 minute metcon (no cleans or box jumps)/barbell curls
5 - sprints/weighted vest sprints/short metcon (either or)/GHD Raises
6 - bench press/barbell row/triceps/5-10 minute metcon
7 - off
8 - squat (I use low bar and work the "high bar" in heavy front squat metcons which will probably be on the same day as squats, have to test this out to see if it works well)/short 5-12 minute metcon

Of course this isn't going to be the simplest program to work out because I want to hit assistance lifts as well as conditioning work, I am curious to see how Wendler is going to approach this and how he will make it work.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:46 PM   #12
David Meverden
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your program Jay. After reading Wendlers ebook, I agree that it could be a great program to work in with CF style MetCons. I love all the different options he gives for training. I was thinking that his 1 day/week training plan might be a good option for trying to maintain strength if a trainee decided to switch focus and spend most training days doing endurance or longer mainpage WoDs or something.

I'm going to be working a 5 week shift cycle so his 3 day a week plan which uses a 5 week cycle instead of 4 weeks caught my eye. What do you think of the following program, Jay (or others)?

Monday: Press work, short metcon, assistance work.
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Deadlift, short metcon, assistance work
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Bench, short metcon, assistance work.
Saturday: Long metcon.
Sunday: Rest

The lifts would be different the next week based on his 3 day/week plan, but the pattern would be the same.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:56 PM   #13
Jay Ashman
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your program Jay. After reading Wendlers ebook, I agree that it could be a great program to work in with CF style MetCons. I love all the different options he gives for training. I was thinking that his 1 day/week training plan might be a good option for trying to maintain strength if a trainee decided to switch focus and spend most training days doing endurance or longer mainpage WoDs or something.

I'm going to be working a 5 week shift cycle so his 3 day a week plan which uses a 5 week cycle instead of 4 weeks caught my eye. What do you think of the following program, Jay (or others)?

Monday: Press work, short metcon, assistance work.
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Deadlift, short metcon, assistance work
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Bench, short metcon, assistance work.
Saturday: Long metcon.
Sunday: Rest

The lifts would be different the next week based on his 3 day/week plan, but the pattern would be the same.
I like it, it leaves room for recovery as well. Looks like a solid program. What assistance lifts are you planning on using?
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:53 PM   #14
Michael Manning
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

David, why no squat? BTW, Wendler's E-Book=WIN
EDIT... maybe you'll rotate squat in later?
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:28 PM   #15
Jay Ashman
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

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Originally Posted by Michael Manning View Post
David, why no squat? BTW, Wendler's E-Book=WIN
EDIT... maybe you'll rotate squat in later?
because he is doing a 3 day a week lifting program, squat is the 4th lift in the cycle and would be the first lift in week two.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:44 PM   #16
David Meverden
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

Not squatting would be a crime. Nay, it would be Heresy!

Jay:
I'm thinking the following:
Press: Dips and chinups
Deadlift: Goodmornings or back extensions, GHD situps or leg raises
Bench: DB bench and DB rows (will the weight used for DB bench and DB rows be about the same? I have little experience with DB rows. It would be very convenient if I could use the same dumbbells for both)
Squat: More squats or weighted lunges.

Four or five sets of ~10 for each exercise after the WoD, alternating exercises so it goes faster, though at times I think I will let the WoD substitute itself for one of the exercises if the movement in the WoD is of enough quality.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:25 PM   #17
Daniel Higgins
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

David,

I think the way your programming is set up has the potential for great results. The best part about it (when compared to others' ideas in a similar thread) is that you have sufficient rest. Some were planning on training 5+ days a week hitting all 4 main lifts, plus metcon, plus assistance/supp. work. Taking the default 4 week mesocycle (4th week as deload) and making it 5 weeks to train 3 barbell lifts/wk is probably the best way to go if you are going to hit metcons.

My only suggestion would be to keep your assistance/supp lifts consistent for at least 2 full cycles. So if you are planning on dips & chins for press day, keep it that way. If doing acc/supp work and a metcon is too much after the main lift, turn them into the metcon (i.e. superset dips & chins on press day or db press & row on bench day). "Supersetting" is often a bodybuilding term and a lot of people use it for stuff like lat raise and tri push downs, but for more compound movements like dips and pullups it did the job for me. From 8 months of 5/3/1 I found that being consistent and not too overzealous was the way to go.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:55 PM   #18
Aaron Gainer
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

its the easiest program around and I still have yet to really push it because I started out light(the #1 rule of the program besides consistency). Be;ow are my results from 2 runs of the program at a bw of 175-181.

Cycle 1 Cycle 2
MP 140x5 140x6

DL 355x2 355x8

SQ 250x10 255x11(all full high bar squats)

BP 230x2(crappy spotter), 230x4(good spotter)


Before this, I Took a break from all four lifts and did single limb stuff. I actually find doing the barbell lifts and assistance(single limb, ring work, posterior chain, core) has made lifting enjoyable, and easier to get motivated for a lift since its only done every 7-9 days(I do the three day a week cycle).

I need to do more conditioning since last cycle I did not get to sprint due to crap weather, but generally do it the day after squats or deadlifts and/or when I can have an extra day of rest before I do lower body.


Bottom line: Use this program if you want a change that will still allow you to condition and not leave you drained.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:30 PM   #19
Jay Ashman
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

David, DB rows depend on how strong you are in that movement. But it looks good like that.
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:02 AM   #20
Matt Guingrich
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Re: 5/3/1 and Crossfit questions from Wendler

Jay and David, how are you guys programming the metcons on the 5/3/1 days? They're short, so I assume you're doing mostly couplets and triplets, but what about exercise selection?
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