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Old 11-28-2014, 07:53 PM   #11
Christopher Morris
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

"Layback" isn't meant to engage the back. It's meant to pop the hips so you can fully engage the power from the legs and hips.

I agree with David's comments here.

The clean is a sequential movement from the ground up. Each part of the body does its work from the lower extremities on up. First the legs do the work of the first pull. That power is transferred in the second pull by leaning back, arms straight, popping the hips. Once you get under the bar, the back supports the weight into standing position. Finally (in the full clean and jerk) the shoulders and arms support the weight overhead. If you don't lean back and pop the hips, you're breaking the chain of power by denying the hips. Don't deny the hips.

Rolando is doing 95% of the technique right. It's looks pretty good. The one cue I would give him would be to lean back and pop those hips.

(You can do a clean properly with a straight up pull, but most of us fault the hips with that technique. Most of us can benefit from leaning back.)

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Old 11-29-2014, 09:43 AM   #12
Keith Miller
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

But if you concentrate on popping the hips through, the lay-back will take care of itself. My opinion is that you shouldn't consciously think of laying back at the top of the pull. If you pop the hips through and finish the pull, you'll be fine.

Most people will throw head back and mess up the pull if they think about laying back at the top. That's why I don't like North's arch-angel way of teaching the lift.
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:53 AM   #13
Christopher Morris
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

I see where you're coming from, Keith. We agree that popping the hips is critical to the clean. The layback is secondary to the hips, and not a must if the hips are doing what they should be doing.

I would point out that different cues work for different people. Personally, I did not get the hip pop down until I was told to lean back at the top of the pull. It was a conscious, deliberate layback, and then I got the hips.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:45 AM   #14
Keith Miller
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Morris View Post
I see where you're coming from, Keith. We agree that popping the hips is critical to the clean. The layback is secondary to the hips, and not a must if the hips are doing what they should be doing.

I would point out that different cues work for different people. Personally, I did not get the hip pop down until I was told to lean back at the top of the pull. It was a conscious, deliberate layback, and then I got the hips.
I can see where you're coming from. Different cues for different people. Hey, whatever works, right??
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:48 PM   #15
Rolando Garcia
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

All above opinions is why I absolutely love this part of the forum, I am a newbie and between us I do feel we have some good athletes I just feel th coaching experience isn't there...yet. Thanks again Gang.
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:54 PM   #16
Brett Valego
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

http://youtu.be/jtsDEwoWg2Q


while I normally wouldn't look at an American lifter for technique, I'd say Norik might be an exception. he was taught by his father, who is one of the top 2 or 3 lifters of all time easily. his technique is very close to his father's too. here he is at 2014 nationals snatching 168kg as a 94kg lifter, setting a new American record. just under 20kg from the world record
notice any 'layback'...no. I know we've been talking about cleans and this is his snatch but his cleans have the same type of pull.

I know if you frame by frame a world class lifter there looks to be some 'layback' but if you asked any of them to show you how they learned to do it I'm almost positive 100% of them would show you something pretty close to how Norik is lifting. 'layback' and thinking about not pulling straight up will lead to you using your back, overpulling, not using your legs to their full potential and then not being able to use the arms and traps correctly, as in, they won't be able to pull the bar UP because they're in a position behind the bar and therefore will be pulling back and not up.


just another 2 cents from me
carry on
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Old 12-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #17
Marshall Flagg
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Re: Opinions on hang clean

I wrote a big post a while back but never submitted it. It was essentially gonna talk about Norik so I am glad his name appeared here. I don't lift like him obviously but I definitely think about how he lifts and try to incorporate what I perceive he does into how I lift.

Essentially no style is right or wrong, assuming there is a reasonable technique in there.

"Popping" the hips is a dangerous thing to hammer into a new lifter because I think it sets them down a dangerous path unless there is a good eye watching to correct and refine with each pull. I know because I followed that path for a while. It worked and I made lifts but it wasn't really sustainable for me once it started to get heavy.

In my mind, the layback, shrug, whatever, happens fairly automatically. It does that that because that is the start of the third pull. That is what gets you under the damn bar.

The little nasty secret in weightlifting (in my useless opinion anyway) is newer lifters refine their technique make some good lifts, some bad ones, set PR etc. However for a long time the lifts they are making are not really heavy relative to their strength so it takes a really long time to figure out how to really generate power, have no fear all while maintaining correct movement patterns.

Anybody can learn the lifts. I am a testament to that. Of course, in my case I quit Crossfit, stayed away from wholly unqualified "coaches" and figured out a way. Oh yeah and spent crazy amounts of time under the bar. I have no doubt, If I had regular access to a qualified coach I would have probly ten more kilos on my snatch and fifteen or so on C&J right now.
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