Need advise avoiding constant overtraining

Israel Halperin · 08-02-2006, 04:50 PM

in all my years of training i had a tendecy to get sick and sometimes over-train, but in the last 3 months or so, i feel like i am getting overtrained faster than before, for no apparent reason.

i am train 5 days a week of which 2 are spent with a weight lifting team. the volume usually is very high, and workouts average 2-3 hours each.
i suspect the voulme could be one of the reasons.

3 others days include crossfit style workouts, mainly bodyweight exercises and kickboxing.the duration is no more than 1 hour.

diet wise i am doing a pretty good job with the qulity of foods. i eat plenty of fruit,veggies, healthy fats, and lean meats. i tend to overeat but i doubt that has something to do with the overtraining.

my quality of sleep is not very good in the last week but i belive these were the first signs i overlooked. i am getting about 7 hours of sleep a night. i take melatonin each night to help me sleep. 2 nights of the week i work as a doorman which kills my sleeping cycles as i go to sleep at 08:00 in the morning. i am quitting soon.
i am sure this fact has a bit to do with the issue, but i have been doing this for over a year and it hasnt bothered me that much.

its the middle of the summer now, i eat well and sleep alright, i train 5 days a week and take good care of my self, what can lead to my overtraining? i already feel my tonsils swelling which is a sign that i am going to be sick for a while. i just got over the same symptom 2-3 weeks ago where i was sick for 4 days and didnt train.i am also more edgy and have less patience.

i already took enough time off training lately and really dont want to take any more time off.
am i missing anything here ? any advise would be appreciated.

another thought that crossed my mind was taking time off after an X amount of workouts instad of per weeks or months.
i gave it some thought and i belive it will be easier to moniter myself if i took, for example, a week off, after lets say 60 workouts.

thanks

Jesse Woody · 08-02-2006, 05:00 PM

Right off the bat, the 7 hours of sleep sounds horrible. With that amount of volume, you should be shooting for 9 hours or more, or 8 hours and a good nap sometime during the day. You have to give your body a chance to recoup.

Second, are you doing anything to enhance recovery, i.e. contrast hydrotherapy, sports massage, antioxidants, perhaps post-workout nutritional tweaks? Do you take fish oil?

Your idea to take weeks off here and there is good. It has been suggested to take a half-volume week every 4 weeks, and a full week off every 12. Give all of this a try, and I'm sure you'll be able to work it out.

Mike Kirkpatrick · 08-02-2006, 05:09 PM

My "Diagnoses" (or whatever):

1) Workout volume...a workout should NEVER last 3 hours when involving semi-heavy (70% of 1rm) and heavy (80-90% of 1rm) weights. It taxes your CNS heavily, it creates a catabolic state, and it is usually counter-productive.

2) Sleep is an issue. You need at least 8 hours of good quality sleep everyday, although 10 would be better.

My advice:

1) Take 1-2 weeks off from working out if you are overtraining. I know this is extremely hard, but it basically resets your body and ends overtraining. Your workouts are not going to be very effective anyway if you truly are overtraining, so take some time off. It's difficult, but it works.

2) Start lowering the volume on your weight workouts, 1 hour is about the max you should workout with semi-to-heavy weights...unless you are on Steroids.

3) Start taking some L-Glutamine for recover, pre-workout and post-workout.

4) Get 8-10 hours of sleep every night/day, even if it means taking a nap during the day.

Ross Hunt · 08-02-2006, 05:21 PM

Respectfully disagree regarding the length of workouts....

I did the whole 45-60 minute workout thing for a while, too. Now my workouts last ~2 hours--they went 3 or longer on many occasions last month. Longer workouts allow longer rest, heavier weights, and rest between exercises--------> strength gains. A bunch of people at my oly gym train this way and have excellent results from it. This is certainly not to say that this is the only way to go, just to say that you CAN get good results from this.

Doing full-intensity Xfit on the off-days (or weight-training on your days off from Xfit, however you look at it) is not something I have been able to pull off. Doing a short circuit (10 minutes max) after a workout) seems to offera good balance beteen benefit and recovery impact.

Russ Greene · 08-02-2006, 06:02 PM

If you are unable to handle your workload, either improve recovery or decrease intensity or volume, or both.

Not every workout has to be perfect, or 100%. You will often, if not usually be training to get some quality practice in, as opposed to putting forth maximum effort in order to reach a PR. Learn to understand the concept of "today's" max. As in the most you can do today. Not in competition, not with full recovery, but what you are able to do today. Don't beat yourself for not being able to perform as well when you're sore and tired as when you're completely fresh.

When you do your heavy lifting don't push until you can't manage one more rep. Focus on getting high quality, crisp, reps in with moderately heavy weights, staying away from failure.

Don't focus on whether you're suffering enough in your training, focus on whether or not you're making results. It doesn't make sense to keep working yourself into the ground for the sake of some imaginary god of suffering if you're not progressing and you're getting sick.

I think that most people here know how to push themselves very hard. The more complicated thing is to convert that training into results through intelligent recovery and knowing how and when to moderate effort.

John Velandra · 08-02-2006, 06:12 PM

Over training equal under recovery....

Recovery being in no specific order and (obviously not all inclusive): volume, rest and sleep, proper nutrition, moderation of intensity (all aspects), adaptation and response to internal/external stress (work, self, family, etc).

Eva hit it on the head earlier (Need to find that thread again) that if you wait to take a rest day, it's too late, you're "overtrained". Think of dehydration - once you're realizing it, you've already been dehydrated!

Charlie Reid · 08-02-2006, 07:05 PM

You might also need to eat MORE. Eating quality is paramount, however training volume means you need food volume as well. Capitalize on all the recovery techniques you can...

1)Post-workout recovery meal or shake

2)Eat Breakfast (a dan john favorite)

3) contrast showers/baths (5 rounds of 30sec. hot/30sec cold)

4) active recovery on off days (walking, get warmed up/stretch/go home)

5) Eat in accordance to your activity level and make sure you are getting the right foods at the right times

6) Make sure your emotional/spiritual/social situation is in check. Added stress definitely affects recovery, be it from family trouble, work stress, or whatever else you have stored up

7) Take some time out of your day to clear your mind, even if it's only for 15 minutes. It works.

George Brothers · 08-03-2006, 04:18 AM

israel
there was a thread recently that covered a rotation that i think went like this:
weeks one and 2-wods as prescribed
week 3-wods scaled to 50%
week 4-no wods, other stuff like biking, kayaking, whatever, something fun
i would think that you could modify this to your specific situation.
btw, there was a recent study that showed if someone took melatonin at night when they usually sleep, it does no good. on the other hand when nightshift workers took it in the morning and went to sleep it helped.
i work both days and nights and have been doing so since 1991. i am a firm believer that there are those people that can adapt to working nights and those that cannot. one trick i found useful is to sleep at least 3 hours before a night shift and 3 hours after.
also, if you are going from a daytime job to a nightime job during the same day, it is a recipe for illness. while financially it may be a necessity, we are not made to do that for the most part.

Matthew McCarty · 08-03-2006, 07:08 AM

A two hour workout that can be sustained day after day , I would think is horribly inefficient.

Larry Lindenman · 08-03-2006, 10:22 AM

George, very close:

*Weeks 1-3: WOD as RXed.

*Week 4: 50% volume (either reps, time, distance, or weight or any combo which makes sense).

*Repeat

*Week 12: Rest week no WODs, just fun activities.

*Repeat

Been doing this for 3 years with great results.

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08-02-2006, 04:50 PM	#1
Israel Halperin Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: tel aviv tel aviv Posts: 65	in all my years of training i had a tendecy to get sick and sometimes over-train, but in the last 3 months or so, i feel like i am getting overtrained faster than before, for no apparent reason. i am train 5 days a week of which 2 are spent with a weight lifting team. the volume usually is very high, and workouts average 2-3 hours each. i suspect the voulme could be one of the reasons. 3 others days include crossfit style workouts, mainly bodyweight exercises and kickboxing.the duration is no more than 1 hour. diet wise i am doing a pretty good job with the qulity of foods. i eat plenty of fruit,veggies, healthy fats, and lean meats. i tend to overeat but i doubt that has something to do with the overtraining. my quality of sleep is not very good in the last week but i belive these were the first signs i overlooked. i am getting about 7 hours of sleep a night. i take melatonin each night to help me sleep. 2 nights of the week i work as a doorman which kills my sleeping cycles as i go to sleep at 08:00 in the morning. i am quitting soon. i am sure this fact has a bit to do with the issue, but i have been doing this for over a year and it hasnt bothered me that much. its the middle of the summer now, i eat well and sleep alright, i train 5 days a week and take good care of my self, what can lead to my overtraining? i already feel my tonsils swelling which is a sign that i am going to be sick for a while. i just got over the same symptom 2-3 weeks ago where i was sick for 4 days and didnt train.i am also more edgy and have less patience. i already took enough time off training lately and really dont want to take any more time off. am i missing anything here ? any advise would be appreciated. another thought that crossed my mind was taking time off after an X amount of workouts instad of per weeks or months. i gave it some thought and i belive it will be easier to moniter myself if i took, for example, a week off, after lets say 60 workouts. thanks

08-02-2006, 05:00 PM	#2
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Right off the bat, the 7 hours of sleep sounds horrible. With that amount of volume, you should be shooting for 9 hours or more, or 8 hours and a good nap sometime during the day. You have to give your body a chance to recoup. Second, are you doing anything to enhance recovery, i.e. contrast hydrotherapy, sports massage, antioxidants, perhaps post-workout nutritional tweaks? Do you take fish oil? Your idea to take weeks off here and there is good. It has been suggested to take a half-volume week every 4 weeks, and a full week off every 12. Give all of this a try, and I'm sure you'll be able to work it out.

08-02-2006, 05:09 PM	#3
Mike Kirkpatrick Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Talladega Alabama Posts: 77	My "Diagnoses" (or whatever): 1) Workout volume...a workout should NEVER last 3 hours when involving semi-heavy (70% of 1rm) and heavy (80-90% of 1rm) weights. It taxes your CNS heavily, it creates a catabolic state, and it is usually counter-productive. 2) Sleep is an issue. You need at least 8 hours of good quality sleep everyday, although 10 would be better. My advice: 1) Take 1-2 weeks off from working out if you are overtraining. I know this is extremely hard, but it basically resets your body and ends overtraining. Your workouts are not going to be very effective anyway if you truly are overtraining, so take some time off. It's difficult, but it works. 2) Start lowering the volume on your weight workouts, 1 hour is about the max you should workout with semi-to-heavy weights...unless you are on Steroids. 3) Start taking some L-Glutamine for recover, pre-workout and post-workout. 4) Get 8-10 hours of sleep every night/day, even if it means taking a nap during the day.

08-02-2006, 05:21 PM	#4
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	Respectfully disagree regarding the length of workouts.... I did the whole 45-60 minute workout thing for a while, too. Now my workouts last ~2 hours--they went 3 or longer on many occasions last month. Longer workouts allow longer rest, heavier weights, and rest between exercises--------> strength gains. A bunch of people at my oly gym train this way and have excellent results from it. This is certainly not to say that this is the only way to go, just to say that you CAN get good results from this. Doing full-intensity Xfit on the off-days (or weight-training on your days off from Xfit, however you look at it) is not something I have been able to pull off. Doing a short circuit (10 minutes max) after a workout) seems to offera good balance beteen benefit and recovery impact.

08-02-2006, 06:02 PM	#5
Russ Greene Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 637	If you are unable to handle your workload, either improve recovery or decrease intensity or volume, or both. Not every workout has to be perfect, or 100%. You will often, if not usually be training to get some quality practice in, as opposed to putting forth maximum effort in order to reach a PR. Learn to understand the concept of "today's" max. As in the most you can do today. Not in competition, not with full recovery, but what you are able to do today. Don't beat yourself for not being able to perform as well when you're sore and tired as when you're completely fresh. When you do your heavy lifting don't push until you can't manage one more rep. Focus on getting high quality, crisp, reps in with moderately heavy weights, staying away from failure. Don't focus on whether you're suffering enough in your training, focus on whether or not you're making results. It doesn't make sense to keep working yourself into the ground for the sake of some imaginary god of suffering if you're not progressing and you're getting sick. I think that most people here know how to push themselves very hard. The more complicated thing is to convert that training into results through intelligent recovery and knowing how and when to moderate effort.

08-02-2006, 06:12 PM	#6
John Velandra Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Fayetteville NC Posts: 710	Over training equal under recovery.... Recovery being in no specific order and (obviously not all inclusive): volume, rest and sleep, proper nutrition, moderation of intensity (all aspects), adaptation and response to internal/external stress (work, self, family, etc). Eva hit it on the head earlier (Need to find that thread again) that if you wait to take a rest day, it's too late, you're "overtrained". Think of dehydration - once you're realizing it, you've already been dehydrated!

08-02-2006, 07:05 PM	#7
Charlie Reid Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 233	You might also need to eat MORE. Eating quality is paramount, however training volume means you need food volume as well. Capitalize on all the recovery techniques you can... 1)Post-workout recovery meal or shake 2)Eat Breakfast (a dan john favorite) 3) contrast showers/baths (5 rounds of 30sec. hot/30sec cold) 4) active recovery on off days (walking, get warmed up/stretch/go home) 5) Eat in accordance to your activity level and make sure you are getting the right foods at the right times 6) Make sure your emotional/spiritual/social situation is in check. Added stress definitely affects recovery, be it from family trouble, work stress, or whatever else you have stored up 7) Take some time out of your day to clear your mind, even if it's only for 15 minutes. It works.

08-03-2006, 04:18 AM	#8
George Brothers Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: weathersfield VT Posts: 131	israel there was a thread recently that covered a rotation that i think went like this: weeks one and 2-wods as prescribed week 3-wods scaled to 50% week 4-no wods, other stuff like biking, kayaking, whatever, something fun i would think that you could modify this to your specific situation. btw, there was a recent study that showed if someone took melatonin at night when they usually sleep, it does no good. on the other hand when nightshift workers took it in the morning and went to sleep it helped. i work both days and nights and have been doing so since 1991. i am a firm believer that there are those people that can adapt to working nights and those that cannot. one trick i found useful is to sleep at least 3 hours before a night shift and 3 hours after. also, if you are going from a daytime job to a nightime job during the same day, it is a recipe for illness. while financially it may be a necessity, we are not made to do that for the most part.

08-03-2006, 07:08 AM	#9
Matthew McCarty Member Profile: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Edmond OK Posts: 114	A two hour workout that can be sustained day after day , I would think is horribly inefficient.

08-03-2006, 10:22 AM	#10
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	George, very close: Weeks 1-3: WOD as RXed. Week 4: 50% volume (either reps, time, distance, or weight or any combo which makes sense). Repeat Week 12: Rest week no WODs, just fun activities. *Repeat Been doing this for 3 years with great results.