CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-11-2009, 06:42 PM   #1
Mark Cheney
Member Mark Cheney is offline
 
Mark Cheney's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas  NV
Posts: 285
Mass gain in light of Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories

As you look at the CF and PM forums, there seems to be a general consensus that lean muscle mass gain requires the following:
  1. Lift heavy, preferably using Starting Strength, PM Mass Gain, etc.
  2. Drink a gallon of milk a day and/or eat everything in sight
  3. Rest
The reasoning behind GOMAD (as well as eat everything in sight) is that a significant caloric excess is needed for muscle growth. With the weight gain will also come some gain in body fat, which can be reduced by returning to the Zone and training with HIIT, Tabatas, etc.

After reading GCBC, I have several questions:
  1. How does the above square with Taubes' assertion that caloric excess does not cause people to gain fat?
  2. A corollary question: If, according to Taubes, exercise and caloric deficit do not cause weight loss, how is it that excess body fat can be shed after coming off SS?
  3. If Taubes is right, would a better diet for muscle mass gain be comprised of excess protein and fat, since it is the excess carbohydrates that are causing the increase in body fat? If so, would said diet allow you to gain muscle and not fat?
Granted, Taubes is primarily taking aim at sugar and refined carbs, but it would seem that there is some validity to the effects of excess carbs of any type. I have some ideas about the answers to the above questions, but I wanted to throw it out to the community.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 07:01 PM   #2
George Mounce
Banned for Ethical and Integrity Violations George Mounce is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Steens  MS
Posts: 3,295
Re: Mass gain in light of Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories

1. Excess to a certain extent. 500 calories is an easy adjustment for the body to work against. 2,400 in the form of a gallon of milk is not. The body adjusts through changing the amount of entropy. It can't heat itself enough to combat the gallon of milk. Plus the body doesn't put things directly into muscle, it puts what it can. The rest goes to fat, and unless you have a way to engineer that genetically, it isn't possible to change that.

2. Shedding fat after SS is almost always accompanied by shedding the excess in the diet, to include the gallon of milk a day, which is the shedding of a lot of carbohydrates. Less carbs, less fat transport, you get the idea.

3. Even bodybuilders know that manipulating the insulin is key to creating muscle, not just protein and fat. Carbs are still required.

None of this is against anything Taubes is saying. The Zone in its purest form (no extra blocks) is calorie restrictive, and since people for the most part are Zoning on good sources of foods, it works even more to their advantage to lose excess weight as they are meeting their requirements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 08:34 PM   #3
Mark Cheney
Member Mark Cheney is offline
 
Mark Cheney's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas  NV
Posts: 285
Re: Mass gain in light of Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
1. Excess to a certain extent. 500 calories is an easy adjustment for the body to work against. 2,400 in the form of a gallon of milk is not. The body adjusts through changing the amount of entropy. It can't heat itself enough to combat the gallon of milk. Plus the body doesn't put things directly into muscle, it puts what it can.
You're making me dust off my p-chem knowledge Because the body temp must remain more or less stable, entropy must increase, driving excess calories into mass gain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
3. Even bodybuilders know that manipulating the insulin is key to creating muscle, not just protein and fat. Carbs are still required.
Hence the concept of loading up on carbs PWO, inducing an insulin spike, and thus facilitating the transport of glucose(?) into the muscles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
None of this is against anything Taubes is saying. The Zone in its purest form (no extra blocks) is calorie restrictive, and since people for the most part are Zoning on good sources of foods, it works even more to their advantage to lose excess weight as they are meeting their requirements.
I've heard that the Zone is calorie restrictive in a number of places, but if Taubes is right, that shouldn't cause the weight loss. Isn't it more likely that the Zone's avoidance of sugars, refined carbs, and other foods on the "bad" carbs list is what's causing the fat loss?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 04:42 AM   #4
Gerhard Lavin
Member Gerhard Lavin is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Berlin  Germany
Posts: 973
Re: Mass gain in light of Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Cheney View Post
Isn't it more likely that the Zone's avoidance of sugars, refined carbs, and other foods on the "bad" carbs list is what's causing the fat loss?

If that was the case then why would the number of blocks matter? The reason the Zone work for weight loss is that it restricts fat and carb intake while providing enough fat to insure satiety and spare muscle..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 05:36 AM   #5
George Mounce
Banned for Ethical and Integrity Violations George Mounce is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Steens  MS
Posts: 3,295
Re: Mass gain in light of Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories

I'm going to refer you to page 454 of the hardbound version of GCBC. You are asking questions I think you already know the answer to.

I believe you are over-thinking this a lot. The billions of your cells in your body are pretty darn smart, and if you give them the right stimuli they will adjust. I gave up on the deep scientific discussions awhile ago (mainly because it doesn't require a PHD to figure this stuff out and going to that level tends to make many eyes begin to glaze over), and I think its time I bow out on this one too.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Review of Good Calories, Bad Calories Scott Allen Hanson Nutrition 0 07-22-2008 12:07 PM
Please check my calculations- Am I getting enough calories to gain weight. Rajib Ghosh Nutrition 2 05-23-2008 05:03 PM
Good Calories, Bad Calories podcast Jason Naubur Nutrition 8 12-04-2007 07:38 AM
Reviewed this month in Men's Journal "Good Calories, Bad Calories" Jay Cohen Nutrition 3 09-05-2007 06:54 AM
Calories or Marconutrients for weight gain? Gregory Spilson Nutrition 9 07-26-2005 10:47 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.