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Old 05-12-2003, 02:42 PM   #1
Jon Pappas
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The Zone says carrots and bananas are suppose to be high glycemic carbohydrate or "bad carb", but I checked this site and their not. http://members.lycos.co.uk/ramendosa/common_foods.htm

I'm confused.
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Old 05-12-2003, 03:59 PM   #2
Robert Wolf
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Jon-

If you scroll down that list a bit you will find not only the glycemic index but also the glycemic load which is the amount of "sugar" per 10g serving. Bananas have a fairly high glycemic load because they do not contain a large amount of fiber or water relative to fruuit like say strawberries. Carrots have a pretty low glycemic load (they are high in fiber and water) however if on juives them or cooks them sufficiently to remove the fiber and or water they can have a very high glycemic index AND glycemic load (Think about drinking a 8oz glass of carrot juice. This represents about 12 large carrots...can you sit down and just eat 12 large carrots?)

That should help clarify things a bit...now for some more confusion:

A low glycemic index is not an open door to mass consumption. Fructose has an incredibly low GI but it will kill you ten ways from sunday. Check out the link about high furctose corn syrup and fructose specificly. The next question is: What about fruit then? It contains fructose, so is it bad? Under the right circumstances it is not. Any ideas what those are? (this is not just for Jon but for anyone interested)
Robb
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Old 05-12-2003, 06:59 PM   #3
David Wood
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I'm not sure, but I bet the "right circumstances" (for eating fruit) will include:

(1) rarity . . . fruit should be a delicacy, a rare treat even (1 / day at the maximum, maybe?) The recommended 5 servings of fruits and vegetables should really be 5 servings of "high color" veggies (dark greens and reds)

(2) whole . . . fruit eaten should include as much of possible of the "packaging" Mother Nature includes with it (skin, etc.) (Do I need to say "cleaned, of course"?)

I still can't figure out (or notice any difference in my own life) whether fruit should be eaten with or without fats/oils or protein.

Dave
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:17 AM   #4
Jon Pappas
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Thanks David and Robert.
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:47 AM   #5
Robert Wolf
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David-

IMO you nailed it! The only thing I might add is seasonality. If one is really trying to emulate a paleo type eating pattern availability will change throughout the year. Im not sure yet how to fit that into an elite fitness protocol...yet.

I have noticed feeling pretty good doing the mixed meals. It is important to keep total amount of food and amount of carbs moderate to mitigate the insulin response.
Fun stuff!
Robb
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:42 PM   #6
Tyler Hass
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Perhaps, post workout would be the best time for fructose. I'm not sure this is based on real research, but the bodybuilders say that it is fine to eat carbs after a workout because they will replenish your glycogen stores before they go into the fat reserves. Who knows?
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:28 PM   #7
Daniel Ramos
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Robert, about the seasonality thing....

How does this aply to places in the world that dont really have marked seasons. Personaly I can get a bunch of bannanas out of my grandfathers back yard every weekend (and do). A bunch of other fruits grow year long here in Puerto Rico and other places closer to the equator.

Also I have heard Dan John and others mention that they try to stick to local fruits. If that where so then, most berries would be out of my diet and from what I understand they can be very nutrisius in terms of ati oxidants and stuff.

Aggain going back to bananas (one of my favorite foods). What efect does the state of ripening have on glicemic index and stuff? What about cooking? I ask this cause boiled green bananas are a staple of my diet and whant to know if I'm killing myself :happy:

Another question; what do you know about plantains?
How do they compare to bananas in evey aspect that I have asked?

well thats just about enogh questions for now.
Hope you are not unconfortable with your position as resident nutrition guru :happy:

happy eating
Daniel
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:19 PM   #8
Robert Wolf
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Mike- In Loren Cordains paper available here:

http://thepaleodiet.com/articles/AJCN%20PDF.pdf

it is discussed that as one moves to higher latitudes plant material becomes less available. So for equatorial folks I think it is pretty natural to consume a greater % of calories from plant material. The whole local and in season thing is important for a variety of reasons including energy expenditure to truck this stuff around the globe but primarily you are getting some incredible antioxidants out of virtually any fruit and if you want to add some imported berries no problem.

As a rule of thumb green and un-cooked means lower GI. You will find the links below helpfull with this regard.

Let me know if you have more questions!
Robb

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/health3g.htm


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