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Old 04-05-2009, 09:06 PM   #101
Phillip Garrison
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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No one claimed that Laura. I simply pointed out that the Pima began experiencing weight and diabetes problems on less calories than they had been consuming before.
Umm no they didn't
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:28 PM   #102
Jason David
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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I've met fat vegans
that's not the question...vegans probably eat lots of rice?? noodles??
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:34 PM   #103
Phillip Garrison
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

Probably, I'm afraid of them so I avoid them like the plague
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:28 PM   #104
Kevin Croke
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Yet take those exact same people and put them in a situation with unlimited food, and they become obese.

From which I conclude that there is no obesity in caveman societies because there is no long term caloric surplus.

Which makes sense: if you're a hunter-gatherer, the only way to get more food is to work harder. If you have enough already, why bother?

Katherine

A gene cannot arise unless it has use and is used. Unless the gene was used in hunter gatherer societies (which you have just said it isnt) it would be selected out. More so, it wouldnt have been selected in in the first place. Simple as.

Last edited by Kevin Croke : 04-05-2009 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:47 PM   #105
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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A gene cannot arise unless it has use and is used. Unless the gene was used in hunter gatherer societies (which you have just said it isnt) it would be selected out. More so, it wouldnt have been selected in in the first place. Simple as.
Huh? I never said any such thing. I've spent the last several pages arguing (a) that the gene for fat storage and the gene for obesity are one and the same and (b) that the gene for fat storage confers significant survival advantages.

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Old 04-05-2009, 11:59 PM   #106
Kevin Croke
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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Huh? I never said any such thing. I've spent the last several pages arguing (a) that the gene for fat storage and the gene for obesity are one and the same and (b) that the gene for fat storage confers significant survival advantages.

Katherine
But it wasnt/is not used in hunter gatherer societies Katherine, which is the period we evolved. So the gene could not have arose because it had no use in hunter gatherer societies because they didnt/dont store large amounts of fat. So the gene would have been mute. I dont mean to sound condescending but i dont think you understand how genes are selected.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:42 AM   #107
Scott Clark
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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Okay. So let's hear it. Somebody on these boards should know at least one person who got fat eating meat, veggies, nuts and seeds right??

There might be some that are at a plateau in their wieght loss eating that way but that diet will not make you fat...

Even if you snack on nuts every time you are hungry.

I'm just going out on a limb here. I could be totally wrong.
You are talking in anecdotes, which is very common for Paleo/nutritional elitists to do. It doesn't matter if you or I personally know someone who became fat eating Paleo or McDonalds as that hardly qualifies as scientific facts. The entire point is that calories, regardless of what foods they come from, will determine weight gain/loss. It doesn't matter if it's Paleo or a #3 from McDonalds, if it puts the individual in a caloric surplus, it will cause weight gain.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:46 AM   #108
Scott Clark
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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I've met fat vegans
I don't doubt that, but it's meaningless anecdotal evidence.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:46 AM   #109
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

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Originally Posted by Kevin Croke View Post
But it wasnt/is not used in hunter gatherer societies Katherine, which is the period we evolved. So the gene could not have arose because it had no use in hunter gatherer societies because they didnt/dont store large amounts of fat. So the gene would have been mute. I dont mean to sound condescending but i dont think you understand how genes are selected.
If they didn't store fat, exactly how did our ancestors survive when spring came later than usual, much less Ice Age winters? Or getting chased away from their stored food by bigger predators or other humans? Or crop failures? Or rats getting into the grain stores because they hadn't domesticated cats yet?

(Yes, I know agriculture is post-Paleolithic. Doesn't matter. Our ancestors had to survive the Neolithic, too. Not to mention all the famines that have happened since.)

While we're being condescending, you don't seem to realize that even "modern" countries had extreme famines well into the modern era. As Phillip put it, we are all descended from fat-storing people. The skinny people died.

Katherine
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:03 AM   #110
Jack Stetson
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Re: Paleo prevents Western Diseases?

I'm going to weigh in with Katherine on this one. It's grossly clear we do have the ability to store fat and will do so given a caloric excess; ergo we are genetically predisposed to store fat. It's self-evident. Given any surplus of calories, we will either become more active or store those calories as fat.

That being said, few Hunter/gather societies don't have obesity issues because 1) they are very active, 2) they eat fewer high-glycemic foods, and 3) they don't have a food surplus. Most Hunter/gatherer societies have to work hard for food. Constantly. Take any Hunter/gatherer and put them on a Western diet with a western desk job and they'll become obese like the rest of us.

The problem is that while the ability to store fat has obvious survival benefits, when unchecked by natures forces (and diets) it leads to health problems.
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