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Old 09-04-2003, 07:32 PM   #1
Roy
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I tried the paleo diet once and after a few weeks, it resulted in laziness, lack of energy, and stress in the mind from being so strict and avoiding so many foods. I also lost some muscle and felt very weak. Not to mention, its very expensive and extremely inconvenient.

My question is, how do you all who are on paleo get their complex carbs, and....stay sane? Im guessing that it would work well for those on low carb diets since they can just eat nuts and meat all day and a hundred pounds of vegetables to get their 30 grams of carbs.

Forgive me if Im bickering, it just didnt work good for me. I like my whole grains (not white) and skim milk.

And another thing concerning the theory that we havent "evolved yet" to digest grains. Look at the neanderthal compared to the human build now. Any difference? YEEEAH. Grain has been a staple food for years and many impressive athletes abided by it and still do. How does avoiding it help anything?

Just some curious thoughts

Cheers

Roy
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Old 09-04-2003, 08:20 PM   #2
Kevin Roddy
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Uh... fruit?
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Old 09-04-2003, 10:50 PM   #3
Brad Hirakawa
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Roy,
It believe it's common to experience the changes you described regarding energy levels and such. However, for the disciplined individual, they often pass with time. Ease into the diet slowly... this seems to help.

"How does avoiding it (grains) help anything?" A reputable literature review will answer that question for you.
Brad
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Old 09-05-2003, 04:56 AM   #4
Roy
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Fruit is a simple carb though, isnt it? what is some reputable literature to explain?
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Old 09-05-2003, 07:39 AM   #5
Scott Kustes
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Fruit is a complex carb. White sugar is a simple carb. The closer to the source it is, in general, the more complex the carbohydrates are going to be. As things become refined, they lose much of their complex structure.
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Old 09-05-2003, 09:11 AM   #6
Robert Wolf
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Roy-

I always tell people that they need to listen to their body...all the theory in the world will not account for individuality. That said I have not found ANYONE yet who does not benefit from a paleo type scheme. Personall I have to watch fruit and do not consume it every day, let alone every meal. There are some who thrive on a Zone type program in which fruit may be at every meal but that is not me. Send me as detailed an accounting of your eating for a 3-5 day period. We can do some tinkering and see if things can be improved.

As to the introduction of grains to the diet, and I am sorry if this sounds arrogant, but every measurable paramater of health decreases when grains and legumes (neolithic foods) are added to the diet. In previous posts relating to this topic I have quoted rates of genetic drift in human populations, anthropological and archeological data. Dig through the archives, read the books which have been recomended and ALL of the research articles at www.thepaleodiet.com
The build and athleticism of H. neanderthalensis makes even modern athletes look like prepubescent kids. After the introduction of grains H. Sapiens lost on average 6" of height which has been regained only in the past century in a few westernized countries.

As an asside a paleo type diet IS expensive...but so are treatments for diabetes, heart disease and cancer. Theis is preventitive medicine we are practicing here!
Robb
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Old 09-05-2003, 02:46 PM   #7
Keith
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I couldn't have said it better Robb. I've had nothing but benefits since I switched to eating paleo.
As an asside, I think a lot of the problems with lack of energy come from cutting out the rice ,pasta, potatoes and not increasing fat intake.


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Old 09-05-2003, 03:04 PM   #8
Brad Hirakawa
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Here's what my 3 minute medline search turned up:

Cordain L, Eaton SB, Miller JB, Mann N, Hill K. The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer diets: meat-based, yet non-atherogenic. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Mar;56 Suppl 1:S42-52. The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer diets: meat-based, yet non-atherogenic.


Eaton SB, Eaton SB 3rd. Paleolithic vs. modern diets--selected pathophysiological implications. Eur J Nutr. 2000 Apr;39(2):67-70.


Simopoulos AP. Evolutionary aspects of omega-3 fatty acids in the food supply. 1999 May-Jun;60(5-6):421-9.

Baschetti, R. Paleolithic Nutrition. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1997 Apr;51(4):207-16.

Haenel H. Phylogenesis and nutrition. Food/Nahrung. 1989;33(9):867-87. Review.

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Old 09-05-2003, 04:39 PM   #9
Kevin Roddy
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does anyone have good photos OF 20th century hunter-gatherers? The only thing that comes to mind when I think if it is tall skinny dudes with spears.
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Old 09-05-2003, 08:14 PM   #10
Roy
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Rob,

I understand you point of preventing diabetes by going paleo, but you can do that by simply avoiding high GI foods. I eat wheat bread rather than white which is a big difference in GI. Dates are a natural fruit and they have a GI of 105 which is higher than white bread/glucose. High Glycemic fruits increase the risk over low glycemic grains, and of course, vice versa.

so I think you do not have to spend a lot of money for paleo only to prevent diabetes. I'll post my diet here, and Ive had nothing but good results from it. I feel stronger, healthier, and Im actually gaining muscle and losing fat. My BF is about 6.2% and i weigh 160. I put on 4 pounds and lost close to 2% BF since 2nd week of august. This diet works great for me, and much like you said, it may not work well for others.

One pre-workout
2 bowls special K cereal w/skim milk
1scoop whey
low GI fruit (like an apple)

Two
Red skin Potato
Slice of ham
3 eggs
2 slice cheese=hashbrowns w/scrambled eggs

Three
Tuna sandwich w/lettuce
carrot
1/8 cup almonds

Four
Grow meal bar(no gelatin, trans fatty acids, like in many other supplement bars)
Apple
1/8 cup almonds

Five pre-workout
1 scoop Whey
Slice bread w/natural PB & jelly
1/4 cup Dried fruit(apricots, peaches, plums, apples, no added sugar)

Six
Chicken breast salad w/honey mstd. Dressing(all natural ingredients 20 cals per tbsp)
1 carrot
3 cherry tomatoes
sweet potatos w/honey

All the bread I eat is from Great Harvest Bread Co. whos ingredients are honey, water, whole wheat flour, yeast and salt. and thats it)Im not having 6-11 servings of grain, and I have more than 6 servings of fruits and veggies(I have bananas post workout with powerade and glutamine) Other than post workout, everything is low in GI. I count meal six as post workout(honey) Another plus of this diet is the convenience. I have a VERY busy schedule, and the morning workout, full time work schedule, and evening martial arts all luckily flow together. I have to eat meal four while im driving(deliveries) Any comments/suggestions are appreciated.



Cheers

Roy
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