CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2007, 01:23 PM   #1
Steve Reggio
Member Steve Reggio is offline
 
Steve Reggio's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lorton  VA
Posts: 212
Snatches

I just saw this from a strength coach named Mike Boyle, he talks about mistakes in training and has this to say about snatches:

Mistake #13: Starting to teach snatches with a snatch grip

When I realized that snatches would be a great lift for my athletes I began to implement them into my programs. Within a week some athletes complained of shoulder pain. In two weeks, so many complained that I took snatches out of the program. It wasn't until I revisited the snatch with a clean grip that I truly began to see the benefits.

Just remember, the only reason Olympic lifters use a wide snatch grip is so that they can reduce the distance the bar travels and as a result lift more weight. Close-grip snatches markedly decrease the external rotation component and also increase the distance traveled. The result is a better lift, but less weight.
-----------------------
I am new to Olympic lifts but now love doing them, what are the thoughts on this from more experienced folks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 01:29 PM   #2
Zac Stutts
Member Zac Stutts is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chapel Hill  NC
Posts: 126
Re: Snatches

but wouldnt that also contribute to earlier arm flexion thus taking the whole shrug/explosion out of the entire picture? thus making the lift something totally different than what it is meant to be in the first place?

if i had atheltes complaining of shoulder pain id increase flexibility training, not change around a lift because changing a snatch imo is just dumb
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #3
Brandon Oto
Member Brandon Oto is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz  CA
Posts: 3,001
Re: Snatches

Is it even possible to do full squat snatches with a clean grip? I can't overhead squat from that position -- the flexibility limitation makes it impossible.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 04:12 PM   #4
Veronica Carpenter
Affiliate Veronica Carpenter is offline
 
Veronica Carpenter's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oroville  CA
Posts: 2,709
Re: Snatches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
Is it even possible to do full squat snatches with a clean grip? I can't overhead squat from that position -- the flexibility limitation makes it impossible.
It's possible, but the tracjectory of the bar during the pulls will be way out front - not exactly the most effiecient way to snatch. AND, yes it requires a whole lot more shoulder flexibility.

Adjusting the grip a bit narrower on the snatch will help with excessive torque on the wrist. I don't see the need or benefit of using a clean grip.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 04:55 PM   #5
Brian Degenaro
Member Brian Degenaro is offline
 
Brian Degenaro's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2006
Location: baldwin  ny
Posts: 1,039
Re: Snatches

I don't see a point in doing clean grip snatches either, they just seem like a pain in the ***. Clean grip OHS, that has more function, especially if you're a squat jerker, but even if you're not, your regular OHS with a snatch grip will feel sooooo much easier.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 05:28 PM   #6
Lincoln Brigham
Member Lincoln Brigham is offline
 
Lincoln Brigham's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kirkland  WA
Posts: 3,987
Re: Snatches

I dunno. If you want to take 3 years to learn how to snatch, I think Boyle is on to something. My guess is that Boyle does not teach the overhead squat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2007, 06:46 PM   #7
Guest
Departed Guest is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 1,095
Re: Snatches

Clean-grip snatches are a decent exercise, but not as a progression to or substitute for snatching. That's just a demonstration of poor coaching and improper progression.

And how would narrowing the grip reduce the external rotation? The start and end points are the same in those terms, and with a narrower grip, the force on the structures involved would be greater, not less. And a narrower grip requires greater shoulder flexibility in the overhead position, so how would that reduce shoulder pain? My guess is that Boyle's lifters are not forced to bring their shoulder and T-spine flexibility up to par, nor are they taught a sound overhead position. And I can confidently say based on the videos I've seen they're not taught anything resembling sound technique. So drawing such conclusions about exercises based on that evidence is ridiculous.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 09:04 AM   #8
Jason M Struck
Member Jason M Struck is offline
 
Jason M Struck's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: richmond  va
Posts: 893
Re: Snatches

he doesn't discuss the overhead in any of his literature or lectures

he also states that he advocates the front squat to parrallel instead of the back squat.

I think that he predominantly uses the DB high hang snatch, so there may be some semantics confusion there too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 11:10 AM   #9
Leonid Soubbotine
Affiliate Leonid Soubbotine is offline
 
Leonid Soubbotine's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longwood  Fl
Posts: 1,586
Re: Snatches

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AFHZ20s2Ho WFS
"Examples of female athletes performing a very technical lift - the hang clean" by Mike Boyle's athletes.

As far as his opinion on reasons for shoulder pain there's an old Russian quote:

"Don't blame the mirror for the ugliness of your own face".
__________________
CrossFit Evolution

Last edited by Leonid Soubbotine : 10-22-2007 at 11:25 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 06:40 AM   #10
Peter Terry Haas
Affiliate Peter Terry Haas is offline
 
Peter Terry Haas's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winston Salem  NC
Posts: 229
Re: Snatches

I teach people the squat snatch by starting w/ the OHS. The ones who complain about shoulder pain usually have poor flexibility, which we work on w/ dislocates, etc. I have them use a wider (not narrower) grip until their flexibility improves.

I've seen clean-grip power snatches used w/ light weight purely as part of a warmup for heavy power cleans. The form isn't the greatest b/c you have to swing it a little away from the body, but it starts grooving in that hip extension. If you're not interested in doing the full squat version of these lifts then that's not a bad idea. If your goal is to teach them the squat version of anything, then work on flexibility.

Are you teaching your athletes the squat versions of the clean/snatch, or just the power versions?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One arm dumbbell snatches luke forelle Exercises 28 05-23-2012 04:18 PM
KB Snatches! Reece Holliday Testimonials 2 06-13-2007 01:03 PM
Dumbbell Snatches Matt Thomas Exercises 7 08-12-2006 11:46 PM
Squat Snatches? Nic Nakis Exercises 20 07-19-2005 11:14 AM
Dumbbell Snatches Parth Shah Exercises 7 04-26-2004 05:32 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.