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Old 03-07-2012, 11:24 PM   #91
Aaron Wilson
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Rob Samuels View Post
The real question is, why do you care if I care?
Rob, its patently obvious that you love people caring about your views. If you didn't you wouldn't still be beating the same dead horse 9 pages later going through numerous different people trying to give you an explanation for your questions. Have you noticed they are all gone and you are still here saying the same rubbish?
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:26 PM   #92
Rob Samuels
 
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

Yes, as are you! Welcome! Also just for the record my beating a dead horse actually ended 3 pages ago. The last 3 pages has been the fanboys trying to up their post count with personal attacks. I only respond as an experiment to see how many pages of bickering you can get to. You ladies get so emotional at times. Don't take it so personal.

Last edited by Rob Samuels : 03-07-2012 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:41 AM   #93
Ben Norris
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
Because you keep trashing every thread like this with the same questions. The only reason I even knew about this thread was when you pointed it out in another thread. I don't know if you are just trying to get banned, but you are doing a good job trying. There are plenty of other sites that love trashing CrossFit and I'm sure you'd fit in very well.
Exactly Paulo. He brings this up in every topic he posts in. Talk about a broken record.

Rob you say that any abuse of those who dare to speak out against crossfit is done by those who cannot think for themselves and will swollow anything HQ tells us.

Anybody who dares disagrees with your ill conceived opinions are "Cheerleaders" and "Kool-aid" drinkers. You go around saying "This is how the threads always degrade. The name calling and the you just hate CrossFit arguments get slung around" Well Rob if it Looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it may well be a duck. (The duck being the obvious fact you do hate Crossfit) You are more guilty of name calling than anybody on these forums.

Stop hating and start contributing something good to these forums, or go over to the websites that are set up to hate on Crossfit. I hear there is one with the word couch in it.

I come here to learn from people much more knowledgeable about training than me. People like Chris, Tamara, Steven and Eric, not read in every topic how much you hate Crossfit.
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My Log 19, 5'9, 160lbs, Deadlift 345, Back Squat 285, Front Squat 220, Bench Press 185, Strict Press 115x3, Squat Clean 175x2, Squat Snatch 135
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:48 AM   #94
Rob Samuels
 
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

What gives you the impression I hate CrossFit? You need to look around these forums a bit son. I Have contributed, evidenced by the responses I get and the MANY who agree with my points.

I am just more vocal than some about the things I disagree with. A lot of folks on here bite their tongue out of fear of being banned or simply because the arguments have gotten old and they are tired of spinning their wheels.

Many of you remind me of Democrats and Republicans. Blind to anything other than what their party believes. Go back and read through the pages and actually read them. The argument is not CrossFit sucks which is what you seem to be unable to grasp.

There are very specific questions asked with not so specific answers given or no answer at all.

You act as if I am alone in my criticisms. This stuff comes up ALL the time and by far more notable persons than myself.

A lot of you are pulling your own conclusions and assumptions from what you read which have nothing to do with what is being asked.

I try to correct those things when they occur but before you know it you have 10 pages of correcting peoples emotional responses.

So if for instance I say a structured program is more effective than a random one, I will get, why do you care what people do? or Why do you hate CrossFit, or if you don't like it don't do it, or you don't understand CrossFit, or any number of responses that have nothing to do with the original statement.

If you don't like what you read, don't read it. But more importantly you don't have to comment. Yet you feel the need to.

You think I should go to another site comprised of folks who will welcome the things I question about CrossFit but what happens when I disagree with posters in those forums regarding things that are positive about CrossFit?

It appears as if you would like a nice cozy campfire where we all sit around it and talk about how great we are. You said you come here to learn from people more knowledgeable than you. How have you made the determination as to who is knowledgeable or not? Do you base it on if whats said fits in with your own belief system?

Tell me Ben have you been to a level 1 course? Have you been to any formal training or education in the field of nutrition? Exercise? Have you taken the time to read books or articles from experts in their field? Do you seek out knowledge from any sources other than what exist in this forum?

I seriously question your basis for even commenting here other than a pure emotional response.

I'm going to try and clarify a few things so there is no misunderstanding as this thread has gotten off track in a few places. Without delving into every little side track I simply wanted to know why it appeared mainsite programming differed from level 1 instruction. I know there were many subsets of that, I understand, but at the root most things come back to that question one way or another.

So in closing, enough with the you hate CrossFit drivel it gets old and like I said if you don't want to read what I write then don't read it. If I didn't have to respond to you I wouldn't even be writing anything anymore.

Nighty Night.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:12 AM   #95
Paulo Santos
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Rob Samuels View Post
Oh Pauli,

Put your pom poms down.

Nothing I have said is Trashing anything if you would use your brain you might see that.
Rob, I'm not a kool-aid drinker. If you look around, you will notice that most of the regulars here have added a structured strength program and added conditioning/CrossFit to go along with the strength program. The difference is that most of us just do it and don't come questioning everything there is about CrossFit. I personally don't follow Mainsite Programming because it doesn't fit my goals right now.

And there is a fine line between being outspoken and just being obnoxious. I've been around forums for a few years now, mostly on weapon forums, where I've been and still am a moderator in some. I've learned that you can get your point across in a tactful/respectful manner without ****ing everyone off and getting banned.

This is nothing personal as I have nothing against you. I'd just wish you'd chill out and stop with questioning everything about CrossFit.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:31 AM   #96
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Ben Norris View Post
Exactly Paulo. He brings this up in every topic he posts in. Talk about a broken record.

Rob you say that any abuse of those who dare to speak out against crossfit is done by those who cannot think for themselves and will swollow anything HQ tells us.

Anybody who dares disagrees with your ill conceived opinions are "Cheerleaders" and "Kool-aid" drinkers. You go around saying "This is how the threads always degrade. The name calling and the you just hate CrossFit arguments get slung around" Well Rob if it Looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it may well be a duck. (The duck being the obvious fact you do hate Crossfit) You are more guilty of name calling than anybody on these forums.

Stop hating and start contributing something good to these forums, or go over to the websites that are set up to hate on Crossfit. I hear there is one with the word couch in it.

I come here to learn from people much more knowledgeable about training than me. People like Chris, Tamara, Steven and Eric, not read in every topic how much you hate Crossfit.
...and anyone who disagrees with CFHQ or majority opinion on here is called "hater" or "troll."

If you've noticed, I've pointed out plenty of the same critiques Rob has, both in this thread and in others. Doesn't mean I'm a troll or hater, just that I'm interested in thinking critically.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #97
Rob Samuels
 
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

Paulo I only have a few specific critiques of Crossfit. Those subjects surface from time to time here on the forum and if you notice rarely do I ever start the thread. The subjects are typically brought up by others I just share my opinion or ask questions in response. No I apologize if I come across as obnoxious I try to keep my comments civil and on point but its difficult when you have a handful of people who refuse to debate the points and instead argue my motives.

I don't make money from being right. I don't sell books I don't sell fitness products equipment supplements or have a website to promote. I just believe there are a handful of things which in my opinion as well as many others could be corrected or improved.

I'm not here to turn anyone towards another program or to badmouth CrossFit I'm offering up an opposing view on certain things. It's up to you to decide if what I'm saying is incorrect or not and perhaps add your own arguments to this. It's not about saying if you don't like it don't do it. It's about information sharing both in support of and against.

You yourself don't follow mainsite because you found it doesn't meet your goals. There are reasons you found this to be the case. Share those reasons don't just run off to another program and say see ya suckers you can follow mainsite if you want but I'm outta here.

You can be critical without being a hatrer. Working towards improving an already good program does not make you ungrateful or put you on "the other team" It means you actually care about the program and want to keep it ahead of the pack.

Or you can not make waves keep quiet and just not get involved for fear of being labeled a hater. Sending this from my phone sorry if there are any spelling errors......
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:26 AM   #98
Paulo Santos
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

Rob, to me, a Troll is someone that registers on a Forum just to trash or defend something. A Hater is someone who has never tried something in question and trashes it, such as the people who trash crossfit and never tried it. You are neither.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Mainsite Programming:
From reading the format that is taught at the level 1, it appears that Mainsite does not folllow that format as written. I see the same elements there, but just not in the same order. Does that make a difference if it is in the same exact order as it taught in the level 1 seminars? I don't really think so.

2. Varied/Random:
Whether you want to call it varied or random (same difference to me), CrossFit Mainsite, and pretty much every crossfit programming is varied. Since CrossFit is a GPP (Conditioning) program, is that really a bad thing or does it really matter? I don't think it really matters.

3. Structured:
CrossFit is not strucured, at least not by my definition. Again, as a GPP Program, it really isn't a big deal. The obvious negative with that is that it is much harder to get consistant strength gains without some sort of structure. It is hard to make progress on your main lifts when you aren't sure when the next time yuo will be doing them again. It could be weeks or months. That is where the hybrid strength and conditioning programs come shines.

4. My issues with CrossFit Programming:
My issues with CrossFit Programming are some of the WODs that have rediculous amount of reps. A perfect example are the ones that have you doing 100 pullups, 50 GHD, etc. Now most people should be smart and scale down, but to be honest with you, it is hard to predict how you will feel the next day. A lot of the MetCons look easy on paper and when you are done, you feel like you just got ran over by a Mack truck. Here is one Metcon that I did last year and I couldn't walk right for 5 days. My two co-workers couldn't get out of their patrol cars:

8 rounds of:
1 minute Front Squats 135/95#
1 minute Situps

On paper that didn't look that bad. Try it and see how you feel. Sure, I could have scaled that down, but 135# wasn't that heavy to me.

I'm not even going to get into the retarded long MetCons that do nothing, but beat your body down.

5. Full-body vs. Upper/Lower Body Splits:
CrossFit is big into full-body workouts. Again, for GPP, it is OK. The problem is when you do squats in a WOD on Monday and all of a sudden, you are doing Squats again on Tuesday. When are you supposed to recover? Your body needs to recover to grow. This is a programming problem.

I much prefer to have Upper/Lower body splits, but that would be a little more structured and I don't know if it fits in with CrossFit (although CrossFit -Strength and LiftStrongRunFast are structured that way). Upper/Lower body splits are much easier on the body for recovery and growth. Plus it works great with a Strength Hybrid Program. Even Olympic Lifts, which are generally full body exercises, I place the squat versions on lower body days and the power versions on upper body days.

Some of these concerns, plus the fact that I just NEEDED to get stronger for my job are the reasons that I started doing my own programming. I consider myself a CrossFitter and will be as long as I keep doing what I'm doing now, but I just like to program things that work best for me. That's the beauty of it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:19 AM   #99
Donald Lee
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

I hate to derail the brofest, but I think a lot of the criticism of CrossFit has to do with the 'constantly varied' part. If you look at the exercise/training literature, the emphasis on variance compared to specificity is very small. The need for variance is usually talked about in terms of mental stagnation. Varying the exercises within a week can allow you to target the same body parts back-to-back because the motor pathways are different.

P90x says you need 'muscle confusion' to make continual progress, but I don't really know what CrossFit's reasoning is for the efficacy of 'constantly varied'. If you look at 'Supertraining' and the block periodization/decathalete-training literature, you'll see effective ways of developing GPP without the 'constantly varied' component. Even linear periodization works pretty well for GPP, until you're fairly advanced. Linear periodization even works well for strength athletes. It's just not in vogue anymore.

As an aside, Coach Glassman used to talk about the neuroendocrine response for the emphasis on power output in every metcon, but the recent research seemed to have debunked that theory. So, we now come to the point where there is no need to train at maximal power outputs to train for maximal power outputs.

If you've been around CrossFit a while, and read/watch all the old stuff, you'll see that a lot of the reasoning just doesn't fly anymore.

CrossFit-type stuff can be fun for people though, so I don't even mind it being a sporting event. But, it's not a superior training methodology.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #100
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Charles Poliquin likes CrossFit

Mainsite has been stated before to be somewhat a testing lab. Let's see how this WOD fairs. Think of a mad scientist doing experiments and crossfitters are the subject lab rat.

Rob, you simply forgot to take the Blue or Red pill during the L1 apparently. Maybe you missed the room and didn't get the complimentary magickal spectacles once developed by Joseph Smith. Damn shame, man.
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