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Old 12-20-2009, 09:44 AM   #11
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Yahya Kohgadai View Post
It wont. It hasn't for years. It's not that I don't have make the time to sleep. I have the time to sleep. I just keep waking up and have trouble falling back to sleep.
To me, this sounds like a sleep disorder (or one in the making) that needs to be addressed rather than being blown off as a fact of life.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #12
Yahya Kohgadai
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Doug Blankenship View Post
Yes. You can put on muscle/mass by eating lots of quality foods (Paleo). But, it's hard to eat 3,500 to 5,000 cals in good clean foods. If you follow a program like SS or 70Big you will put on mass much faster.
So the only thing that makes paleo harder for gaining muscle is that a non-paleo diet would allow me to get the calories i need more easily? It's not so much about high gi carbs and post workout insulin spikes?

Well if that's the case, I could just increase my fat intake. I can put away avocados and nuts like nobody's business and I have no problem cooking my food w/olive oil.

My previous paleo diet consisted of about 1800 calories. If I just increased my protein from 2 eggs to 4 eggs and 1lb of meat to 2lbs of meat and then increase my fat until my total calories get around 3k-2500, that's very doable.

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Originally Posted by Damon Stewart View Post
If you follow those programs plan on getting fat. Read their message boards, they'll say the same thing. Paleo plus milk has worked very well for me. I've got 2 young children and rarely get the sleep I want. You'll absolutely want to add heavy squats, DL's, and presses. CFFB is much better programming IMHO.
Yeah I was thinking paleo but adding a pint of milk after my workout which is usually around 1 or 2ish. I was thinking I could eat some fruit for breakfast and another piece between breakfast and the workout. I don't know if this'll spike my blood sugar really high though.

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
To me, this sounds like a sleep disorder (or one in the making) that needs to be addressed rather than being blown off as a fact of life.
Very true but I have no insurance @ the moment so there really isn't much I can do about it right now. I'll be under review @ the end of next year's first quarter and if I qualify, I'll definitely get it checked out along w/other things.
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Last edited by Yahya Kohgadai : 12-20-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:02 AM   #13
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

What steps have you taken to try to improve your sleep? Cutting out caffeine, sleeping in a completely dark room, noise-free, comfortable temperature, different types of mattress or pillow, etc? What about ZMA (or calcium/magnesium/zinc), Vitamin D3, and fish oil? Have you gotten checked out for sleep apnea or other disorders that make you wake up repeatedly?
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:08 AM   #14
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Yahya Kohgadai View Post
My previous paleo diet consisted of about 1800 calories. If I just increased my protein from 2 eggs to 4 eggs and 1lb of meat to 2lbs of meat and then increase my fat until my total calories get around 3k-2500, that's very doable.
1800 calories is nowhere near enough. That would be below maintenance calories for me, so totally inadequate for an adult male trying to gain weight. So yes, if you want to stay paleo you could certainly try just eating a lot more first.

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Yeah I was thinking paleo but adding a pint of milk after my workout which is usually around 1 or 2ish. I was thinking I could eat some fruit for breakfast and another piece between breakfast and the workout. I don't know if this'll spike my blood sugar really high though.
IMO, the fear of carbs on these boards is borderline irrational at times. Fresh fruit and veggies are good for you. No, a piece of fruit added to an otherwise fat and protein-rich meal is not going to cause a scary blood sugar spike. (Well, maybe if you already have diabetes, in which case you should be following your doctor's advice anyway.)

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Old 12-20-2009, 03:05 PM   #15
Dave Hardy
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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until my total calories get around 3k-2500
My understanding was that 2500 would only really be around maintenance calories for a adult male who exercises regulary, would this be enough to sustain muscle building over a significant period? I restarted linear progression three weeks ago, and would guess that i'm eating well over 3000 calories a day (should probably put it into fitday.com) but not seen any change in weight yet.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:24 PM   #16
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
What steps have you taken to try to improve your sleep? Cutting out caffeine, sleeping in a completely dark room, noise-free, comfortable temperature, different types of mattress or pillow, etc? What about ZMA (or calcium/magnesium/zinc), Vitamin D3, and fish oil? Have you gotten checked out for sleep apnea or other disorders that make you wake up repeatedly?
Do this first.

Then, consider all of the rather well-built military types who get inconsistent and often inadequate sleep. It can be done, but you should try to sleep more. Live on the rings and lift enough barbells off of the ground and you'll gain weight.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:38 PM   #17
Tom Seryak
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

self-hypnosis.
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:19 PM   #18
Yahya Kohgadai
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
What steps have you taken to try to improve your sleep? Cutting out caffeine, sleeping in a completely dark room, noise-free, comfortable temperature, different types of mattress or pillow, etc? What about ZMA (or calcium/magnesium/zinc), Vitamin D3, and fish oil? Have you gotten checked out for sleep apnea or other disorders that make you wake up repeatedly?
Even though that wouldn't completely cure me, I'm sure those are big factors and they'd probably improve my sleep significantly... I usually leave my computer on overnight. I'm sure the humming plays a role.... on and the little light as well.

Also, I think I should try sleeping in a different room since I do everything else in my room; watch tv, eat, go on the comp, hang out w/SO's. I think I need to sleep in a room that is purely for sleep and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
1800 calories is nowhere near enough. That would be below maintenance calories for me, so totally inadequate for an adult male trying to gain weight. So yes, if you want to stay paleo you could certainly try just eating a lot more first.
Well the 1800 was when I was trying to trim down.. But even then I think it wasn't enough. I felt like I lost a bit of muscle. I think when I cut again, I'll ramp it up to 2000 calories, especially since I'll have more muscle then... PRESUMABLY!
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:42 PM   #19
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Yahya Kohgadai View Post
Even though that wouldn't completely cure me, I'm sure those are big factors and they'd probably improve my sleep significantly... I usually leave my computer on overnight. I'm sure the humming plays a role.... on and the little light as well.
DEFINITELY a factor. If the humming is just "white noise" then it may actually be a benefit by drowning out other sounds, but the light is bad. Read "Lights Out" for a long, drawn out explanation of why. But in an evolutionary sense, the smallest amount of light makes your body think that dawn is approaching, which screws up how deep you're able to sleep and messes up production of several vital hormones...can't remember which specific ones at the moment, but I think it may have something to do with melatonin and seratonin levels. Go with blackout curtains, turn your alarm clock on its face, and tape over any LEDs (like on cell phone chargers and whatnot).

Aside from that, try to get into a set pre-sleep pattern and wind down mentally as the night goes on. Being in a well-lit room or watching TV hurts in that it disrupts your internal clock. Try ice baths too...sounds counterintuitive, but plenty of people swear than a 5 minute ice bath an hour before bed makes them sleep like they got hit with a tranquilizer gun.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:52 AM   #20
Doug Blankenship
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Re: Can one still gain SOME muscle with poor sleep?

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Originally Posted by Damon Stewart View Post
If you follow those programs plan on getting fat. Read their message boards, they'll say the same thing. Paleo plus milk has worked very well for me. I've got 2 young children and rarely get the sleep I want. You'll absolutely want to add heavy squats, DL's, and presses. CFFB is much better programming IMHO.
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Of course you're going to add bodyfat. But the end result will not be you being a fat slob with nothing else added on. You get stronger and put on size/mass much quicker than Paleo diet with just CF.
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I think this one's been hashed out enough but I want to point out that's not what I said. I advocated Paleo w/milk and CF with a periodized strength program for those who want to gain quality mass.
Nevermind.

Last edited by Doug Blankenship : 12-21-2009 at 02:03 AM.
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