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Old 04-06-2011, 01:39 PM   #1
Jared Ashley
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Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

I'm looking to have some folks weigh in on their personal experiences with having to reset with linear progression. I've done LP before, but this is the first time I've truly stalled on the squat, and the stall surprised me for squats.

I went from 3x5 at 195 all the way to 255 without missing a rep, squatting twice a week and increasing in 5 lb increments. Previously I had never done 3x5 higher than 225 lbs, and had a 1RM of 270. Then I went:

260: 5, 4, 2 (ok, no big deal)
260: 5, 3, 1 (a surprise)
260: 1, 0, 0 (holy crap!)

Obviously it's time to reset, and I will. I'm just curious if others have had a stall hit them that hard before. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not eating to gain weight (not consistent with my goals), but I'm not losing weight either. Yes, I do some metcon, mostly short (under 10 minutes), and with a weekly long run ("long" meaning usually 5ish miles, and once a month a true LSD run since I'm preparing for a marathon in october). My LSD run is coming up this week, so I haven't done one recently enough for that to be the cause.

Other recent lifts:
BP: 150x 5, 4, 4 (2nd attempt... 1st attempt was 4, 3, 2)
DL: 285x 5
SP: 110x 5, 4, 4 and 115x 3, 2, 2

I am 5'7", 135 lbs, 29yo
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:12 PM   #2
Arturo Garcia
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

You're doing a linear progression but not gaining weight.
You're doing metcons on top of your strength program.
You do a 5 mile run weekly.
And your weight is 135?

Have you thought that maybe this is as strong as you're gonna get with this type of training and at that BW? Your relative strength is pretty good! I bet your Press 1RM is close to 1xBW. Your squat is obviously above 2xBW. And your DL 1RM must be very close to 2.5xBW. These are all good milestones. Improving them while also doing metcons and marathon running (not to mention not gaining any mass) seems tough. But what do I know! Just a humble opinion.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:13 PM   #3
Jared Ashley
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

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Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
You're doing a linear progression but not gaining weight.
You're doing metcons on top of your strength program.
You do a 5 mile run weekly.
And your weight is 135?

Have you thought that maybe this is as strong as you're gonna get with this type of training and at that BW? Your relative strength is pretty good! I bet your Press 1RM is close to 1xBW. Your squat is obviously above 2xBW. And your DL 1RM must be very close to 2.5xBW. These are all good milestones. Improving them while also doing metcons and marathon running (not to mention not gaining any mass) seems tough. But what do I know! Just a humble opinion.
Yes, those things make it tougher. This I have known for a long time. Yes, that limits and slows gains. I understand that also. Your points are valid and noted. It is not impossible however to continue to make gains (albeit slowly) while doing some metcon and some endurance work. I submit CF board posters such as Shane Skowron as proof... his relative strength numbers are better than mine and he runs ultras.

I am mostly just curious if others have had a linear progression program be reasonably sucessful, and then stall that hard and that fast. My other lifts are nearing a stall, but so far are progressing each session without any backward progress... I did not expect the squat to hit a wall and take such a dramatic backward step after such great gains.
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:14 PM   #4
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
Yes, those things make it tougher. This I have known for a long time. Yes, that limits and slows gains. I understand that also. Your points are valid and noted. It is not impossible however to continue to make gains (albeit slowly) while doing some metcon and some endurance work. I submit CF board posters such as Shane Skowron as proof... his relative strength numbers are better than mine and he runs ultras.

I am mostly just curious if others have had a linear progression program be reasonably sucessful, and then stall that hard and that fast. My other lifts are nearing a stall, but so far are progressing each session without any backward progress... I did not expect the squat to hit a wall and take such a dramatic backward step after such great gains.
And I submit that Shane's performance and numbers are not representative of what a normal CFer should expect. Plus I think he's quite a bit bigger than 135lbs.

Are you sure your form is good?
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:36 PM   #5
Jared Ashley
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
And I submit that Shane's performance and numbers are not representative of what a normal CFer should expect. Plus I think he's quite a bit bigger than 135lbs.

Are you sure your form is good?
The last is a valid question, and yes, I am sure. Have videotaped myself during many heavy squat sessions. Without good form, I would never have gotten this far, and that is the truth. My oly lifts have mediocre form at best and are nowhere near at the level of the big 4.

On the first, perhaps... he is maybe 35 lbs heavier and a few inches taller, making his RELATIVE strength even more impressive. I picked him because he has similar goals to me, although there are others (i.e. Speal) who could best Shane is all but ultra-distance, so I do not find a comparison to him outrageous. I am also not quite an average CFer... have been lifting heavy and CFing for about 4 years with decent, though not absolute consistency.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:16 PM   #6
Jason Halm
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

Eat more, sleep more, workout less, or do some combo.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:21 PM   #7
Jason Halm
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

Everytime I've stalled, I've been able to sleep more and better and eat more and better and it takes care of itself.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:32 PM   #8
John Welbourn
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
I'm looking to have some folks weigh in on their personal experiences with having to reset with linear progression. I've done LP before, but this is the first time I've truly stalled on the squat, and the stall surprised me for squats.
Why are you surprised? It is not effective to train for size/strength gains and endurance at the same time; the two are juxtaposed. Completely different energy requirements. Strength/explosive strength is usually predicated upon the type 1, with LSD training utilizing type 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not eating to gain weight (not consistent with my goals), but I'm not losing weight either. Yes, I do some metcon, mostly short (under 10 minutes), and with a weekly long run ("long" meaning usually 5ish miles, and once a month a true LSD run since I'm preparing for a marathon in october). My LSD run is coming up this week, so I haven't done one recently enough for that to be the cause.
A linear progression really only works with weight gain. The program requires hypertrophy and an increase of cross sectional size of the muscle to facilitate strength gains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Ashley View Post
I am 5'7", 135 lbs, 29yo
For most girls, those weights are pretty good. I don't think you should be all that worried and keep training. A 260 lbs squat is a little below what my girlfriend squat but she is 123lbs. she deads 300 lbs so you girls close.

Usually the 5's are harder to recover from, so we have had great success with many of our female athletes using 1-3 reps as it hits the CNS in the right way.

Best of luck.

John
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:39 PM   #9
John McEneany
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

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Originally Posted by John Welbourn View Post
Why are you surprised? It is not effective to train for size/strength gains and endurance at the same time; the two are juxtaposed. Completely different energy requirements. Strength/explosive strength is usually predicated upon the type 1, with LSD training utilizing type 2.



A linear progression really only works with weight gain. The program requires hypertrophy and an increase of cross sectional size of the muscle to facilitate strength gains.



For most girls, those weights are pretty good. I don't think you should be all that worried and keep training. A 260 lbs squat is a little below what my girlfriend squat but she is 123lbs. she deads 300 lbs so you girls close.

Usually the 5's are harder to recover from, so we have had great success with many of our female athletes using 1-3 reps as it hits the CNS in the right way.

Best of luck.

John
Is Jared not male?
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:46 PM   #10
Nicholas Borek
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Re: Linear progression, stalling, and resetting

Quote:
I'm looking to have some folks weigh in on their personal experiences with having to reset with linear progression. I've done LP before, but this is the first time I've truly stalled on the squat, and the stall surprised me for squats.

I went from 3x5 at 195 all the way to 255 without missing a rep, squatting twice a week and increasing in 5 lb increments. Previously I had never done 3x5 higher than 225 lbs, and had a 1RM of 270. Then I went:

260: 5, 4, 2 (ok, no big deal)
260: 5, 3, 1 (a surprise)
260: 1, 0, 0 (holy crap!)

Obviously it's time to reset, and I will. I'm just curious if others have had a stall hit them that hard before. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not eating to gain weight (not consistent with my goals), but I'm not losing weight either. Yes, I do some metcon, mostly short (under 10 minutes), and with a weekly long run ("long" meaning usually 5ish miles, and once a month a true LSD run since I'm preparing for a marathon in october). My LSD run is coming up this week, so I haven't done one recently enough for that to be the cause.

Other recent lifts:
BP: 150x 5, 4, 4 (2nd attempt... 1st attempt was 4, 3, 2)
DL: 285x 5
SP: 110x 5, 4, 4 and 115x 3, 2, 2

I am 5'7", 135 lbs, 29yo
You're 70 lbs underweight, you're doing too much extra work thats draining your ability to recover and you're not eating enough to recover let alone gain weight. Yea, I've never heard of people stalling hard in those circumstances, either.

And the universe doesn't care about relative weight. Being smaller doesn't make the objects around you smaller.
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