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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 10-10-2008, 01:02 PM   #21
John C. Brown
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

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Originally Posted by George Noble View Post
I'm not looking for validation here. There are plenty of places where I could just say "CrossFitters do this, look how stupid they are" and I would get positive responses even if what I described wasn't really stupid. I'm just asking what I believe to be reasonable, honest questions. So far I've been getting reasonable, honest answers, which is great. But it doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
True, and contrarian views are (should be) welcomed, but I am not sure how many times you can ask the same question, even if in different forms, and expect a different answer here.



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Originally Posted by George Noble View Post
OK, I suppose it wasn't a strict upright row as a bodybuilder would want to do it, but it certainly looks closer to an upright row than it does to being a clean that doesn't rack, which is what I understand a high pull to be.
It isn't a clean that doesn't rack, it is a SDHP, it is meant to teach an explosive hip opening and then passing the movement kinetically through the midline to the traps, in the hopes of generating enough momentum on the bar that the arms don't (shouldn't) have to pull much. In a clean there is a scoop/ transition phase that isn't included in the SDHP and a third pull (under the bar) that isn't a part of the SDHP, the goal is simply to get a violent extension of the hips, to have an exercise that is extremely intense even at low (relatively) loads and reinforces the idea that the arms should only pull as an afterthought.



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Originally Posted by George Noble View Post
Well if I remember correctly from a video I saw, Coach Burgener teaches the snatch first in his progression, not the SDLHP. I'd love to have someone who knows him better clear that up, and I'd also very much like to hear the opinions of highly regarded WL coaches because I am sceptical of the necessity of this movement.
Yes, Coach B teaches the Snatch first. He has huge success with his progression and like CF has taken to teaching Athletes and non athletes alike. His methods are very simple (as opposed to some). Jump! Land in an Overhead Squat! Or Front Squat for the Clean. As to the necessity of the movement, again: 1. We (CrossFit) have found it to work well in getting a desired response. 2. It is more likely to appear this way in life, think about lifting a bag of top soil, concrete, shingles, a body up to your shoulders, this is probably how it will look, as I stated in a previous post. Also, as was said in Robert's post, Coach B technically starts with the Burgener Warm Up, the second move being a high pull with the hips initiating the movement. He does it from the hang, we do it from the ground, but the important parts are all the same. Explosive opening of the hips followed by a big shrug, followed by the elbows pulling high and outside.
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Last edited by John C. Brown : 10-10-2008 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Finish a thought
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:55 PM   #22
Jake Tingley
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

Thanks for this thread. I have been searching the forums/internet for this answer for awhile.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:18 PM   #23
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

I didn't realize there was going to be controversy in this. I was regurgitating Level I lessons. As taught by my cert instructors the SDLHP is a perfect segue from the DL to the clean. Maggie, while demonstrating a proper SDLHP stopped at the top to show trainees what our top was supposed to look like. Nobody implied that hanging out like that while exercising was a good idea. This was with a pvc pipe after all. I broke them down in the order they were taught. All of them break down basically into the clean group OHS group and the jerk group. That's how I remembered them this morning.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:38 PM   #24
David Wood
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
I didn't realize there was going to be controversy in this.

This is the internet.

It wouldn't take much to make "gravity pulls down, true or false?" controversial.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:45 PM   #25
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

It actually doesn't, it pulls toward the center of the object Point taken.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:56 PM   #26
Delita Wright
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

There's a series of videos in the CF Journal archives that I watched today after coming across this thread. This link is to *part 2* which is about the movements and follows up with the gymnastics part. I recommend starting not with this one, but scroll to the bottom of the article and find the link to *Part 1.* Dealer's choice, tho:

http://journal.crossfit.com/2008/07/...-part-2-th.tpl

of course, w/f/s.
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Old 10-10-2008, 05:11 PM   #27
Donald Lee
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

You definitely should not hold the SDHP at the top and make it a shoulder exercise.

This comes from http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...row_052606&cr= (pretty WFS)

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Today's training tip comes from Eric Cressey:

No Mo' Upright Row

I don't believe in contraindicated exercises, only contraindicated individuals. But if there's one exercise that'll ever push me over the line, it's going to be the upright row. This is as internally rotated as the humerus will get, and you're elevating the humerus right into the impingement zone on every rep. For that reason, I'll never write upright rows into a program. The dumbbell version is a slightly safer alternative, although I feel that there are still much safer ways to challenge the upper traps and deltoids. To summarize, if you've ever had a shoulder problem or are at risk, you'd be wise to omit upright rows altogether.
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:00 PM   #28
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

The SDHP is not a shoulder exercise, it IS NOT an upright row. The end position is the same but hip extension drives the weight up in SDLHP. It's similar to comparing a power clean to a reverse curl.
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:05 PM   #29
John C. Brown
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
It's similar to comparing a power clean to a reverse curl.
AHAHAHAHAHA
Great comparison
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:42 PM   #30
George Mounce
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Re: What are the 9 Foundational Movements?

I'm going to admit I'm confused.

I personally think the analogy of the SDLHP being anything near a clean is absurd (for one it violates the clear notion of the squat being the foundation of the clean, and you can't squat properly in a SDLHP).

I've yet to see anyone clean anything with legs that wide out (the drag a body analogy is poor too, nobody has a stance that wide to pull someone, and the pull is done with an isometric hold of the ankles/around the person's body and is primarily leg driven against the ground, there is no need to pull them beyond that point). The starting position of a clean and a Rip deadlift aren't even the same (though I'm sure some will argue they are...but they aren't, read pg 83 of Olympic Weightlifting, has me convinced).

If this exercise was useful at all for being part of a clean supplemental exercise or a clean teacher, I would think it would be in Greg E's book. Its not. The clean pull is, and it truly is a pull to the second pull without the third pull. The SDLHP teaches people to pull with their arms, and if it isn't then I argue how anyone gets the bar much past the hips with any appreciable weight without using them. The power clean if anything would be in my mind a "more functional clean" then the SDLHP would ever be.

Well I threw in my $.02. I feel better, off to other things.
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