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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-22-2014, 11:49 AM   #21
Douglas Chapman
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Maximus Lewin View Post
Rip Said:

"Different physical tasks require different physical adaptations; running 26.2 miles is obviously a different task than squatting 700 pounds, and the two efforts require completely different physical adaptations. If a program of physical activity is not designed to get you stronger or faster or better conditioned by producing a specific stress to which a specific desirable adaptation can occur, you don't get to call it training. It is just exercise.”

I'm sorry to say, but my formerly hard-headed friend Rip, who was a mentor and a big influence, seems to be falling victim to soft-headedness, seemingly based on jealousy.

By the above definition any training done which is not in the service of becoming better a monomodal task is not training, it is "just exercise".

Better tell everyone in the NFL, every high-ranking MMA fighter, not to mention decathletes and Rich Froning (who not serious person disputes is the most generally fit man on the planet anymore) that they are not training, they are "just" exercising, to use Rip's pejorative adverb.
Hey Max - Let's build some people who can do a 3:30 Marathon and a #600 BSQ in the same day. We would still wouldn't shut up the nay sayers but it would be work a chuckle.

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Old 01-22-2014, 12:06 PM   #22
Andrew Bell
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Douglas Chapman View Post
Hey Max - Let's build some people who can do a 3:30 Marathon and a #600 BSQ in the same day. We would still wouldn't shut up the nay sayers but it would be work a chuckle.

DChap
My goal is actually a sub 2:15 half marathon, and 300kg weightlifting total in a 2 day period. Of course being over the 245lbs that I'm at now won't work for that though.

Lot of strength training, and running involved for that one. Not so many GHD's as mainpage has had the last month.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:13 PM   #23
Mark Boyle
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
If programming is random then I would have some agreement with Rip.

If programming is constantly varied but still planned in a way to generate adaptation, then I would disagree in regards to labeling CrossFit that way.

Hence some boxes randomly program (metcon mills) and others have a plan--some very structured and others highly variable but structured in a way that you can't see it in a weeks' programming.

Many would argue CF Main Page is Random, not constantly varied with a plan in mind. Of course, planning a general fitness program for the masses with multiple needs and goals causes some difficulties in firmly structuring the plan.
I agree with this.

There are so many different things done under the name "Crossfit" that you can't really say one way or the other. I think the Main Page is "exercise" while what many people here do is "Training".
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:39 PM   #24
Mark Boyle
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus Lewin View Post
Rip Said:

"Different physical tasks require different physical adaptations; running 26.2 miles is obviously a different task than squatting 700 pounds, and the two efforts require completely different physical adaptations. If a program of physical activity is not designed to get you stronger or faster or better conditioned by producing a specific stress to which a specific desirable adaptation can occur, you don't get to call it training. It is just exercise.”

I'm sorry to say, but my formerly hard-headed friend Rip, who was a mentor and a big influence, seems to be falling victim to soft-headedness, seemingly based on jealousy.

By the above definition any training done which is not in the service of becoming better a monomodal task is not training, it is "just exercise".

Better tell everyone in the NFL, every high-ranking MMA fighter, not to mention decathletes and Rich Froning (who not serious person disputes is the most generally fit man on the planet anymore) that they are not training, they are "just" exercising, to use Rip's pejorative adverb.
I don't agree with you here. I don't see any implication that the task must be "monomodal".
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:29 PM   #25
Matt Thomas
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

I think his point was rather simple.

Your goal can be WHATEVER. Better GPP, stronger, run a marathon, it can be specific or broad.

If you have a structured plan to systematically improve in whatever your goal is and the inputs into your workout are directed toward that plan then you are training.

If you are walking to a whiteboard and doing whatever comes into your brain that day with no thought toward progression, intensity, recover, etc. then you are just exercising. Even if your goal is GPP it can and should be done in a systematic fashion. If it's not it's just exercise.

Now because it's CF does not mean it's just exercise. People do employ the principles of CF in a smart "training" scheme. But the reverse is also true. In a lot of affiliates and on CF.com it's just exercise.

I'd say he makes some valid points and presents some issues that any affiliate should consider and not fall victim to. But he over generalizes in saying that ALL of CF is this way.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:36 PM   #26
Russell Greene
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

"on CF.com it's just exercise."

So, you think that the workouts on CrossFit.com are not designed to improve fitness (work capacity measured across broad time and modal domains), and the people doing them are not trying to improve their fitness?
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #27
Matt Thomas
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

I think there is no systematic approach to do so. If there is please show me as Andrew said. What's the template? What's the plan?

This was part of what Rip was saying and I agree with it. If you follow main page yes you will get fit. And maybe very fit. Up to a point. But after a certain amount of progress I do not think the randomness of main page will take you any further. And that is probably exactly why top level CF athletes have moved to planned strength programs with conditioning and none of them do main page. Main page is exercise. That's not a bad thing, but if you are going to acquiesce to Rip's definition that training is planned and systematic and based around a specific goal then I do not think main page is training.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:48 PM   #28
Jeff Enge
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

You can do anything within reason exercise wise and succeed in accomplishing something as vague as "improving fitness."

I think what's being argued here is a question of semantics. Rippetoe isn't saying that exercise is a negative thing, in fact that's all the general person that wants to get fit really needs. He's saying that once you have concrete, quantifiable goals and start following a program based on continually measure progression towards those goals, you've moved from what he calls "exercise" to what he calls "training." It's just a question of word choice.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:00 PM   #29
Pearse Shields
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
"on CF.com it's just exercise."

So, you think that the workouts on CrossFit.com are not designed to improve fitness (work capacity measured across broad time and modal domains), and the people doing them are not trying to improve their fitness?
I think it's like sitting in a plane all day, pushing different buttons that you know are all somehow related to this plane flying, and hoping that it gets you off the ground.

I think there's a goal in mind, yes, but there's no structure or planning to it designed to make the process easier.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:00 PM   #30
Russell Greene
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Re: Did Rippetoe get CrossFit right?

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Originally Posted by Matt Thomas View Post
I think there is no systematic approach to do so. If there is please show me as Andrew said. What's the template? What's the plan?

This was part of what Rip was saying and I agree with it. If you follow main page yes you will get fit. And maybe very fit. Up to a point. But after a certain amount of progress I do not think the randomness of main page will take you any further. And that is probably exactly why top level CF athletes have moved to planned strength programs with conditioning and none of them do main page. Main page is exercise. That's not a bad thing, but if you are going to acquiesce to Rip's definition that training is planned and systematic and based around a specific goal then I do not think main page is training.
Matt Chan, Jason Khalipa, Rich Froning, and Austin Malleolo all have been doing main site workouts recently. It's not all they do, but they do the workouts.

Rippetoe's definition of training is “physical activity done with a longer-term goal in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to produce that goal.”

CrossFit.com workouts are designed to improve fitness (work capacity measured across broad time and modal domains). People do them to get fitter. How does that not meet the definition of training above?

By the way, I'm not sure where you got the idea that people stop making progress with CrossFit. I've been doing it for 11 years, and still set PRs (465 deadlift and 178 lb. press in the past week). Pat Sherwood and Greg Amundson have had similar experiences.

Constantly varied, functional movements, executed at high intensity. Train your weaknesses hard and often. "Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds" etc.

It is simple, but it works. Not everyone who does it will qualify for the CrossFit Games, but not everyone who runs will qualify for the Olympics either.
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