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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #11
Sean J Hunter
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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If I remember that conversation, no one ever claimed you couldn't increase your training resource, the argument was over the best way to do it and the best way to tell when you're too close to the edge.
No certain dude's who will remain nameless where saying you can't increase your CNS ability to handle volume.

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Yes, obviously elite athletes handle huge amounts of volume. Arguably, ability to handle that volume is at least as important as any particular athletic "talent." On the other hand, elite athletes often reach the ends of their careers with (often because of) substantial wear and tear, including chronic injuries that will be with them for the rest of their lives. That's not a good outcome for a program that claims to promote lifelong fitness.
Now that's an interesting point, thanks for your thoughts Katherine, always appreciated. It's such a juggling act isnt it.

Do you have any thoughts on the "best way to train it"

Cheers

Sean
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #12
Donald Lee
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

After reading into this whole John Broz thing some more, I posted about it on another forum:

http://www.8weeksout.com/phpBB3/view...2&p=5967#p5967 (WFS)
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:07 PM   #13
Leonid Soubbotine
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Training a ton works really well. The only trick is that it's pretty hard to do in a regular life.

But it does work really well if you have the time & ability.

Personally I can never perform well on just 1 workout a day (and by well I mean - good enough to my liking). Just got a 3:02 Fran & 7:33 Helen in the last two weeks & finished Kalsu Rx'ed in under 25 - each of those was 3rd workout for the day.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:38 PM   #14
Jacob Cloud
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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Originally Posted by Greg Light View Post

Anyone heard of him before or have any thoughts on what he proposes. Obviously his intent is for weightlifting, but why not apply the same principals to whatever your sport is, be it crossfit, powerlifting, strongman, etc.

I like it. Hard work, pushing through mental barriers, etc. All great stuff. I tend to think that the human body can adapt to almost any stress, even what we so often think would instantly trigger "overtraining." The key for normal guys is to smartly work up to it so as not to get injured and burned out.

Most of the stuff out there - cf.com, SS, etc. are designed to make better than average athletes in a chosen field, but they aren't going to make people elite on their own. That requires much more dedication than just 3-6 workouts per week, it requires a lifestyle.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:17 PM   #15
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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Originally Posted by Sean J Hunter View Post
Now that's an interesting point, thanks for your thoughts Katherine, always appreciated. It's such a juggling act isnt it.

Do you have any thoughts on the "best way to train it"
Not really, as it's not a goal I've tried to pursue. Add load progressively, watch for signs that you need to back off, take good care of yourself outside the gym.

Katherine
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #16
Donald Lee
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Not really, as it's not a goal I've tried to pursue. Add load progressively, watch for signs that you need to back off, take good care of yourself outside the gym.

Katherine
The thing with pure Bulgarian training is that you're going to feel like crap and you're going to have all the signs of overtraining, but you're still supposed to keep on training. As many, in other sports at least, have done it other ways successfully, I'd rather not go full-blown Bulgarian. I have experienced much of the "dark times" John Broz talks about through training for the military, and it is no way to live for any prolonged time.

If you plan on implementing this model of training, you'd better know what you're doing. Also, you'd better not back off too much very often, because once your body is in a heightened state, backing off totally destroys you. Also, many training adaptations are achieved, at least in the cardiovascular endurance realm, through training at low intensities.

I am a fan of frequent training for strength/technique gains, but frequent maximal training is not something I plan on trying on a consistent basis. Maybe in a 2-4 week cycle, but not beyond that.
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:29 AM   #17
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

The "dark times" come and go periodically, I'm finding that out as I increase the volume. As I have pointed out, you can't really train to your max daily. Some days you can only lift 50kg, which can be a fraction of your best lift. Intensity is managed by fatigue.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:46 AM   #18
Donald Lee
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
The "dark times" come and go periodically, I'm finding that out as I increase the volume. As I have pointed out, you can't really train to your max daily. Some days you can only lift 50kg, which can be a fraction of your best lift. Intensity is managed by fatigue.
That's why it's called a "training max."

Brian,

What's your training week look like now? How many training sessions have you been able to work up to per week? And, how many times per week do you BS and FS?
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:19 PM   #19
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Every day, M-F 2x a day if possible, if not 2x on Sat or Sunday. I squat every day, every session, front squatting at least once a week (since my BS is "low" compared to my front). The morning sessions are just working up to a max, most times backing off for a few doubles or triples, and the afternoons would be a few more backoff sets. This is for all 3 exercises.

I'm going through my 2nd "dark time" thanks to the increase in training volume now, but prior to this increase I was snatching 95-102kg (PR 105), CJ'ing 120-130 (PR 136, clean 140), and squatting 165-175 (PR 185) day in and day out.

Prior to taking up this training my lifts would be all over the place. I only snatched 95+ 11x between October and end of the year, and 100 3x between when I made it Oct 14th and Jan 1st. Since Jan 1st I've snatched 95+ 30x, and 100+ 10x. In less than one month I've made more progress. Between October and January I was trying to ease into it but it wasn't until I jumped in with both feet I saw dramatic progress.

Also, I've missed 110kg+ snatches in training several times.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:24 PM   #20
Donald Lee
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
Every day, M-F 2x a day if possible, if not 2x on Sat or Sunday. I squat every day, every session, front squatting at least once a week (since my BS is "low" compared to my front). The morning sessions are just working up to a max, most times backing off for a few doubles or triples, and the afternoons would be a few more backoff sets. This is for all 3 exercises.

I'm going through my 2nd "dark time" thanks to the increase in training volume now, but prior to this increase I was snatching 95-102kg (PR 105), CJ'ing 120-130 (PR 136, clean 140), and squatting 165-175 (PR 185) day in and day out.

Prior to taking up this training my lifts would be all over the place. I only snatched 95+ 11x between October and end of the year, and 100 3x between when I made it Oct 14th and Jan 1st. Since Jan 1st I've snatched 95+ 30x, and 100+ 10x. In less than one month I've made more progress. Between October and January I was trying to ease into it but it wasn't until I jumped in with both feet I saw dramatic progress.

Also, I've missed 110kg+ snatches in training several times.
Are you periodizing at all (i.e., light days or light weeks)?
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