CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-29-2009, 10:43 AM   #111
Robert D Taylor Jr
Member Robert D Taylor Jr is offline
 
Robert D Taylor Jr's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chesapeake  VA
Posts: 1,736
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Kulas View Post
Granted. I am not Navy and don't know anything specific about the Navy selection process. Niether am I a marine - I'm 9 years in the Army at the age 26 - a SSG with almost 3 years in rank. The PT requirements I stated cross the Marine and Army APFT/PFT tests.

What am I? Well - now I work as the Supply Sargeant - but I was an instructor since I made E5 up until about a year ago. I am pretty familiar with the military school process.

I have never looked at the training program Caviston suggests to people going to school, nor do I know all the requirements for BUD/S. However, I do know that if I am teaching a particular class I generally know more about the subject matter than the students. Joey may be well qualified to tell you what worked well for him - but that doesn't mean that his success will translate across the board. I would venture to say that Caviston's program emphasizes areas in which they tend to see the most failures - in other words, the areas in which there are requirements for which most people generally lack specialised training. (Or perhaps I'm totally off base and he has a program that consists 100% of rowing, since that is his background...)

Does that mean that if I send out a prep-packet to my students that it means that the packet is the best way to prepare for my class? No - but it does mean that if they utilize the information I provide them before hand, that they should have no problem meeting the requirements. Does it mean that they won't have a problem in an area that most people have no problem in? No. I can say that for PLDC (now WLC - Primary Leadership Development Course / Warrior Leaders Course) the biggest issues are with land navigation and conducting a PT session. Therefore, when we send packets out we emphasize to the unit that they should prepare their Soldiers for these two events. Does that mean we won't get the guy that can't give a class to save his life, or the guy that can't wrap his head around Army Regulations? Nope - we'll get them too - but these people are outliers and their particular needs don't need to be emphasized to the large majority. These people should work with their leaders to identify their weaknesses before submitting for school.

I am not suggesting that CrossFit should not be used in the preparation for SF schools (I am using SF to generalize any special force - not to specify the green berets). Anyone contemplating putting in for SF selection should know that they need to have a firm physical fitness basis - and CrossFit will definitely provide that.

That said - utilizing the main page alone will not likely prepare you for any endurance event that will be found at most SF schools. Plain and simple. Look how angry and surprised people are that 2 5K rows came up so close in the cycle. This is indicative of the lack of emphasis on endurance in the CrossFit main page WODs (which is what Mike Caviston specifically addressed in his post). What I am suggesting is that the CF WOD on the main page is not sufficient to prepare someone for most schools I am familiar with - and I would assume the same is true for BUD/S.

Does this mean SEALfit isn't sufficient? No - I have no idea what their training looks like. Could CF be sufficient if supplemented with a program that is more in line with the requirements of the school? Most definitely. Can CrossFit by itself be successful for certain people? I'm sure it could - especially if they have a strong endurance base already and just need to round out their GPP.

I have no idea who Mike Caviston is (besides the obvious - but this thread is the first I heard of him) and don't support him as a person, but I do suspect that he knows what preparations need to be made in the average person to be successful in a course that he oversees some aspect of. Don't misconstrue my words just because I don't agree with you directly.

Also, I don't think its a great idea that the CrossFit community slam an individual who is largely responsible for making recommendations about physical fitness development and getting on his bad side (I realize that Glassman may have already done this) - he's not a proponent of CrossFit, but there is no reason he has to be made an enemy.
Nathan,

You made specific claims about the school process for entering into NSW, I am not an expert on BUD/S, but I have negotiated a similar path. Your comments were irrelevant and misleading. I am also somewhat familiar with the job requirements of a person in SOF (That's the correct acronym, I never wore a green hat ) The problem with this thread really is folks who don't know whereof they speak. I can't tell you a single thing about Army supply, or Navy supply for that matter, but I can speak to some authority on SWCC, and general Navy stuff, and to a lesser extent, mostly cool by association, with other elements of SOF. You said that Selection was SPP, it's not. Everone with experience in that has said that it's GPP. You seem to need to be right about this, sorry.

SSG in 6 years isimpressive at least from a retired Navy BM1 perspective, Hoo-yah (hooah in your language) Thank you for your service
 
Old 12-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #112
Andrew H. Meador
Member Andrew H. Meador is offline
 
Andrew H. Meador's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Williamstown  MA
Posts: 917
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier View Post
I don't know how it works in the States, but Mil here in Canada (yes i'm a serving member so I speak from experience)

Once your done basic, and your posted, the mil doesn't control what you eat, how much you sleep, or your training. they can say hey we're doing runs at 6am...but they can't stop you from hitting the gym after work, they can't come into your house and tell you what to eat...damn the military isn't Nazi germany or the red army lol

Hell even in basic, you have like 3-5 choices at the meal line, but you aren't going to have instructors there deciding what you eat. Also same age?? not here, you have members joining 17-40, all kinds of different shapes and sizes.
If you're trying out for (Army) Special Forces, Pararescue, Combat Control, SEALs, the 75th Ranger Regiment, Marine Recon, etc., then they control your sleep, your food intake, your physical output, your clothing, your teammates - everything. They need to know if you will keep performing when you're miserable. Same goes with JTF2 and other Canadian units. You can't predict much. If you're going Navy, you're gonna swim. If you're going Army, you're gonna ruck. Other than that basic level of knowledge, it's GPP, folks.
__________________
I pay no attention whatever to anybody's praise or blame. I simply follow my own feelings. -W. Mozart

Last edited by Andrew H. Meador : 12-29-2009 at 10:57 AM.
 
Old 12-29-2009, 11:47 AM   #113
Nathan Kulas
Member Nathan Kulas is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brunswick  ME
Posts: 172
Re: Mike Caviston

Robert - I apologize if I sounded like I was trying to speak with too much authority - that was not my intent, so much as to suggest that someone running the school might have a better idea than either you, myself, or even someone fresh out of the selection pipeline with a new job. In my experience, any military school requires a certain degree of specialization in something - as stated in the post above mine - if you're in the Navy, you're going to swim, if you're in the army (more correctly, the infantry) you're going to ruck.

I'm not going to suggest that in any of these schools that a 5 mile run time is more important than a generalized fitness that also addresses push-ups, pull-ups, rope climbs, sit-ups, carrying heavy loads for long durations, and being able to lift your heavy buddy up and carry him - but my experience suggests that a strong endurance foundation is important in any special ops school, along side a GPP - with emphasis in different areas depending on the school. My suggestion is that in terms of GPP, the WOD on the main page may be lacking in certain important/emphasized areas.
__________________
27/m/68"/185# - 300 BP, 435 DL, 435 BS, 205 Clean, 100# wtd pull-up, 3:23 Fran, 22:50 Angie, 25 Cindy rds, 20:17 5K Row, 7:31 2K Row, 5:43 1 mile run
 
Old 12-29-2009, 12:07 PM   #114
Robert D Taylor Jr
Member Robert D Taylor Jr is offline
 
Robert D Taylor Jr's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chesapeake  VA
Posts: 1,736
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Kulas View Post
Robert - I apologize if I sounded like I was trying to speak with too much authority - that was not my intent, so much as to suggest that someone running the school might have a better idea than either you, myself, or even someone fresh out of the selection pipeline with a new job. In my experience, any military school requires a certain degree of specialization in something - as stated in the post above mine - if you're in the Navy, you're going to swim, if you're in the army (more correctly, the infantry) you're going to ruck.

I'm not going to suggest that in any of these schools that a 5 mile run time is more important than a generalized fitness that also addresses push-ups, pull-ups, rope climbs, sit-ups, carrying heavy loads for long durations, and being able to lift your heavy buddy up and carry him - but my experience suggests that a strong endurance foundation is important in any special ops school, along side a GPP - with emphasis in different areas depending on the school. My suggestion is that in terms of GPP, the WOD on the main page may be lacking in certain important/emphasized areas.

Maybe, but that's what Joey said, CF with work on your weaknesses.

Many Sailors I know can't swim.
 
Old 12-29-2009, 01:21 PM   #115
Andrew H. Meador
Member Andrew H. Meador is offline
 
Andrew H. Meador's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Williamstown  MA
Posts: 917
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Kulas View Post
In my experience, any military school requires a certain degree of specialization in something - as stated in the post above mine - if you're in the Navy, you're going to swim, if you're in the army (more correctly, the infantry) you're going to ruck.

...but my experience suggests that a strong endurance foundation is important in any special ops school, along side a GPP - with emphasis in different areas depending on the school. My suggestion is that in terms of GPP, the WOD on the main page may be lacking in certain important/emphasized areas.
If you're in the 75th, you're going to ruck no matter what MOS they give you, especially in RIP/ROP and Ranger School. If you're going SF, you're 18 series, and guess what? You'll be carrying a ruck. Not infantry, technically, but still ruck-oriented. PLDC isn't the same experience as SFAS or RIP - don't confuse them. GPP is what candidates should focus on, outside of what they already experience in their unit, or should - rucking, land nav, etc. You're coming from a Regular Army point of view.

If there are too many acronyms, I apologize
__________________
I pay no attention whatever to anybody's praise or blame. I simply follow my own feelings. -W. Mozart
 
Old 12-29-2009, 01:41 PM   #116
Doug Blankenship
Member Doug Blankenship is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Las Vegas  NV
Posts: 1,306
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Higgins View Post
Well based on his alleged performance, maybe there should be a pass/fail at a L1 cert. Just because there wasn't one for him, I don't see any point in defending him when he still did flat out badly. Even if he doesn't like CF methodologies used in BUD/S training, shouldn't someone as a "respected coach and sport physiologist" be able to perform a proper back squat?
Spin things much? You stated things that were never said, you then cover them up by trying to spin it again with things you have no first hand knowledge of.
 
Old 12-29-2009, 02:12 PM   #117
Daniel Higgins
Member Daniel Higgins is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Arlington  MA
Posts: 242
Re: Mike Caviston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blankenship View Post
Spin things much? You stated things that were never said, you then cover them up by trying to spin it again with things you have no first hand knowledge of.
The only invalid assumption I made was there being a pass/fail at the certification. From that assumption I basically echoed Greg Glassman's statement in that he should not be a coach of general fitness (and there is the GPP vs SPP argument in regards to SOF) if he doesn't know how to perform basic barbell movements. On top of that, I made several arguments against Mike Caviston's views on both GPP & CF (see page 2 of this thread).

The only personal arguments I've made are against those of Mr. Caviston, which is what seems to be the purpose of this thread. Why would I "spin" things and "cover them up?" I have no personal gain at stake, its merely an intellectual argument. If you disagree with me, by all means make it known. But we're not politicians so why the individual bashing?
__________________
Trying to get stronger...if I post inaccurate information, please correct me for the benefit of others and myself.

Last edited by Daniel Higgins : 12-29-2009 at 02:16 PM. Reason: semantics
 
Old 12-29-2009, 02:24 PM   #118
Camille Lore
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
Re: Mike Caviston

And with that, we're done.
 
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mike vs. Joe Joe Barker Workout Logs 52 11-24-2008 03:01 PM
Mike Romo Mike Romo Workout Logs 17 05-10-2008 02:02 PM
Iron Mike Anthony Bainbridge CrossPit 11 01-14-2007 11:05 AM
Mike B do you Greg Kemp Workout of the Day 6 03-29-2005 06:32 PM
Mike Minium is Mean! Jonathan Kessler Workout of the Day 14 12-20-2004 05:08 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.