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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-05-2011, 03:05 PM   #1
Vickie Ellickson
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Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

I'm curious as to where I'm likely to stall out with a BW of 160lb on squats and deads. I understand there are a lot of variables that come into play, but I've seen folks whose opinion I respect throw out ideas on how much someone should be able to lift based on their BW.

I'm not opposed to eating more & gaining weight to improve lifts. Just wondering what my probable limitations will be with my current mass. My goals are:
Squat my current BW
Deadlift 200+lb
Bench 135lb
Press 95lb

I'm assuming that won't happen without following a LP program like SS. That's not feasible for me in the short-term, as I have too many activities to allow for proper recovery for an LP program nor can I get enough calories in to increase BW. Recovery is more of a factor than food. Some hybrid program (5/3/1?) will probably be in order for me to make gains in the interim.

Currently:
BW: 160lb
BF: ~16%

BS: 100lb
DL: 100lb
Bench: 115lb
Press: 55lb

Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:10 PM   #2
Michael Loucas
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

Those numbers should be easily achievable for anyone regardless of things like 9 hours of sleep and 4k calories a day. Just follow linear progression and adhere to it as best as you can and you should be able to hit those easily. Better goals would be bodyweight bench, 1.25 bodyweight squat, 1.5 bodyweight deadlift. once you hit those goals go from there.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #3
Matt Thomas
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

Agreed. Those goals should come fairly easily on LP regardless of whether or not your sleep is a little off or you can't shovel in tons of calories. In fact if I were you I'd probably try to stay at my current weight while going after those goals.

Note: I feel like my post is coming off as looking down at the numbers you're trying to hit and I just want to say that that isn't the case at all and not how I'm trying to come across. All goals are worthy. All I'm trying to say is I don't feel like you need to sacrifice putting on extra weight to add the pounds onto the bar that you're looking for.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:41 AM   #4
Kevin Chandler
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

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Originally Posted by Michael Loucas View Post
Those numbers should be easily achievable for anyone regardless of things like 9 hours of sleep and 4k calories a day. Just follow linear progression and adhere to it as best as you can and you should be able to hit those easily. Better goals would be bodyweight bench, 1.25 bodyweight squat, 1.5 bodyweight deadlift. once you hit those goals go from there.
I agree that these would be good immediate goals to set for yourself. For future (long-term) goals I would eventually strive to get 1.5 x bw bench press, 2 x bw squat and 2.5 x bw deadlift. Once you get to this level you will be up there with some of the strongest athletes pound for pound in your gym.

Keep in mind, however, that this process will take several months to develop. Don't get too worried about the weight in the beginning. Focus on slow, controlled reps, and perfect form. NEVER sacrifice form for weight, as this will inevitably lead to injury.

A good way to set short-term goals would be to try to increase your bench press 5 lbs per week, your squat 10 lbs per week and you deadlift 15 lbs per week.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:53 AM   #5
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

There's no way to tell where you're likely to stall out based on bodyweight alone, but those goal numbers should be well within reach without you needing to gain significant weight. Just do a strength-biased program for awhile if your immediate goal is to get stronger on the major lifts.

You could go with a 5/3/1 approach, or a twice per week GSLP approach where you press/squat one day and bench/deadlift on the other, in a 5-5-5+ rep scheme (except for deadlift which is only a single set). Increase bench and press by about 2.5lbs per workout and squat and deadlift by 5lbs per workout. That program should be easy to integrate with your other activities but some more information about your outside work would be helpful for advising you.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:24 PM   #6
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

Thanks guys.

Eric,

I do jiu-jitsu three times a week (1.5hrs per class) and ultimate frisbee ~3 times a week (1hr each). That's 7+hrs of hard cardio per week. I tried the Starting Strength progression awhile back. Food wasn't a problem, but I wasn't able to recover and never felt fresh for the lifts.

Generally I do strength work M-W-F and alternate deads/presses with squats/bench using a 5 x 3 scheme for an ~80% of 1RM workset. Metcons and skill work added sporadically throughout based on energy level and time available.

I took a gent up on his offer a couple of weeks ago for programming that encompassed lifts and metcons, so the lifts schedule has been alternating squat/dead/press on M-W-F AMRAP 90% 1RM with a ~10min metcon afterwards.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone and am encouraged by general consensus that if I stick with small progressions that I'll be able to meet my short-term goals w/o having to dedicate myself strictly to lifting.

There's something about putting 45lb plates on the bar that is very, very motivating.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:34 PM   #7
Matt Thomas
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
There's something about putting 45lb plates on the bar that is very, very motivating.
Yeah I agree with that for sure.

Do you still do the metcons? Just personal opinion, but with the amount of conditioning you get through sports and your immediate goals being strength oriented I feel like they would be unnecessary and counter productive.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:50 AM   #8
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
Thanks guys.

Eric,

I do jiu-jitsu three times a week (1.5hrs per class) and ultimate frisbee ~3 times a week (1hr each). That's 7+hrs of hard cardio per week. I tried the Starting Strength progression awhile back. Food wasn't a problem, but I wasn't able to recover and never felt fresh for the lifts.

Generally I do strength work M-W-F and alternate deads/presses with squats/bench using a 5 x 3 scheme for an ~80% of 1RM workset. Metcons and skill work added sporadically throughout based on energy level and time available.

I took a gent up on his offer a couple of weeks ago for programming that encompassed lifts and metcons, so the lifts schedule has been alternating squat/dead/press on M-W-F AMRAP 90% 1RM with a ~10min metcon afterwards.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone and am encouraged by general consensus that if I stick with small progressions that I'll be able to meet my short-term goals w/o having to dedicate myself strictly to lifting.

There's something about putting 45lb plates on the bar that is very, very motivating.
I think the 2x per week GSLP approach would fit very well with that BJJ schedule. The idea of switching from 3x to 2x per week is to accommodate busy schedules or high amounts of conditioning work by cutting back on lifting volume to still allow for recovery. The 2 days can be any two days in the week that fit your schedule best--Mon/Thurs or Tues/Fri or Wed/Sat or whatever works best to make you fresh on your lifting days.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:21 PM   #9
Jared Ashley
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Re: Max Back Squat & Deadlift w/ 160lb BW?

you should definately be able to reach those weights, in fact I think you'll surprise yourself if you follow a good program. No reason you couldn't do LP... you don't HAVE to gain weight on such a program, it just makes it faster and with greater end-result strength. You definately do not need to gain weight at all to hit those numbers on any program. LP will most likley get you there faster than 5/3/1 or other methods, although either would work.

For reference, I was able to hit and exceed those numbers with basically a few months of some random 3x10 type training, at a bodyweight of 135 and no fitness background. I know i'm a guy and that makes it easier, but I still think you could hit those numbers in less than 6 months.
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