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Old 11-13-2009, 12:17 PM   #71
Louis Andre Pardo
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Casey Crookston View Post
What can't be true?

I confess, I don't understand basic plant and soil biology. I'm a computer programmer. But my father grew up on a farm, spent his childhood growing wheat, then got a PhD in Crop & Soil Sciences, and spent his life researching the best ways to grow corn, wheat and soybeans. He, along with thousands of other food, crop and soil scientists understand advanced plant and soil biology, and many of them say that there is no notable difference between non-organic and organic. I did not say NO difference. I've been saying all along that there IS a difference. But the difference is not worth worrying about.

I promise I am not making this up.
Casey, I am sure for most people in the world there would be no problem with your arguement. What's important to remember is that what's the "best ways to grow" crops from a farmer's perspective is not necessarily the best way to grow crops from every consumers perspective. Farming operates on a huge economy of scale that says the bigger the yield the better. Crop and soil science that supports science is all about getting larger yield through genetic modification and fertilization among other unnatural practices. Some would argue that fertilization cannot adequately replenish the soil in the same manner that a natural growing cycle would. Less nutrition in the soil means less nutrition in the food. While this should really only be an issue to the 1% of the people that have bothered to address all other more significant dietary issues (corn, flour, sugar, processing), there is a difference between best for farmers and best for consumers.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:33 PM   #72
Ryan Norman
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Laura Kurth View Post
Sometimes I don't even wash stuff I like to think of it as building up my immunity.
Nice. I say the same thing. and I get the "are you retarded?" look!
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:11 PM   #73
Clay Jones
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Casey Crookston View Post

The truth is, of course, organic and non-organic are not exactly the same. Grind them up and put them under a spectrograph and they won't be identical. But study after study has been done on the differences, and the end result is that the trace amounts of chemicals in the non-organic foods is so abysmally small that it will have no effect on the human body, no matter how much is eaten.
Agreed. I heard Bruce Ames speak a few years back on the very subject, he brought up the point that the available research at the time indicated that there was little quantity difference in many of the trace chemicals that are found in the two types of produce.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:03 PM   #74
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

Differneces in the trace chemicals they are looking for. There were differences in the omega 3/6 ratio right after cows started eating more grains, but all the research on omega 3 and omega 6 have been done in the past decade or so.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:02 PM   #75
Scott Clark
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Mike Mallory View Post
Why do you think all those bunk studies are out there? There's a lot more money in conventional farming........Not to mention monsanto
Mike are you seriously this much of a conspiracy theorist? I respect your opinions in this thread but nearly every reply has either implied some kind of massive conspiracy or has contained anecdotal evidence. The Monsanto stuff really out there. I mean its like Paul Chek or any other alternative medicine practitioner.... promote conspiracies and give advice based on anecdotes which aren't based in science.

If people want to eat organic produce then I'm all for it and if they enjoy believe that they are getting a healthier product, so be it. The important thing that we can all agree on is that the inclusion of produce in one's diet, whether organic or conventional, is the most important thing.

Last edited by Scott Clark : 11-23-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:40 PM   #76
Mike Mallory
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Scott Clark View Post
Mike are you seriously this much of a conspiracy theorist? I respect your opinions in this thread but nearly every reply has either implied some kind of massive conspiracy or has contained anecdotal evidence. The Monsanto stuff really out there. I mean its like Paul Chek or any other alternative medicine practitioner.... promote conspiracies and give advice based on anecdotes which aren't based in science.

If people want to eat organic produce then I'm all for it and if they enjoy believe that they are getting a healthier product, so be it. The important thing that we can all agree on is that the inclusion of produce in one's diet, whether organic or conventional, is the most important thing.
Have you ever tasted a wild blueberry before?......How 'bout a tomato straight out of the garden? Tried a biodynamic strawberry?

I don't think we need to argue that its a world of difference from what we get in the store.

Does the USDA food guide pyramid contain any real truth? Would you call that a conspiracy? Same thing with organic farming......

Why have most fine dining establishments switched over? Conspiracy?

There are plenty of significant studies out there to show that nutrient density matters.........If you're actually interested, I'd be happy to list 'em
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:59 PM   #77
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

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Originally Posted by Mike Mallory View Post
Have you ever tasted a wild blueberry before?......How 'bout a tomato straight out of the garden? Tried a biodynamic strawberry?
Yes to all and aside from the fresh picked tomato(since it is local and fresh), I cannot tell any difference whatsoever.

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I don't think we need to argue that its a world of difference from what we get in the store.
This is subjective.

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Does the USDA food guide pyramid contain any real truth? Would you call that a conspiracy? Same thing with organic farming......
Real truth as in what? The USDA Pyramid doesn't preach the evils of organic foods and claim that organic produce causes diseases.

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Why have most fine dining establishments switched over? Conspiracy?
To cater to yuppies/hippies? Hell, I don't know. What restaurants? What is their given reason? What science is their decision based on?

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There are plenty of significant studies out there to show that nutrient density matters.........If you're actually interested, I'd be happy to list 'em
Of course nutrient density matters. We agree there. The point is that organic produce is not more nutrient dense than conventional produce. Locality and freshness of the produce would dictate nutrient density of the produce, not the organic/conventional thing. I would love to read any study that you feel proves organic produce to be superior to conventional produce.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:46 PM   #78
Mike Mallory
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Re: Can normal veggies (non-organic, with pesticides) be eaten raw?

Well, to be honest, I don't know how you can't taste the difference......I've done the blind taste tests, and I often have my clients do 'em too. It's often more obvious with herbs.

You can do the 'chicken test' on organic vs. non-organic if you like......Go buy a regular supermarket chicken, then buy an organic free range chicken......Try to break the cruciate ligaments of the leg in each of them by bending the joints backwards......There will be an obvious difference in strength.

Now, on to organic farming references;

Lady Eve Balfour; The Haughtley experiment; the longest study ever on conventional vs. organic. During this study, it was found that the switch from conventional to organic produced these results;

-disappearance of rheumatism
-arresting of dental caries
-reduced frequency of colds/infections
-curing of allergy symptoms
-etc.

an excerpt;

"A london boarding school, which grew its own produce, switched from artificial fertilizer to indore compost. Following the switch, cases of colds, measles, and scarlet fever,which used to run through the school, are now confined to single cases imported from the outside"

F.H. King; author of Farmers of Forty Centuries, a summary of farming methods in China. A little bit from the book;

While in the Shantung Province, King visited a holding that was 1-2/3 of an acre where the farmer had 10 in his family and was maintaining one donkey and one pig,showing for his farm land and maintenance capacity of 3,840 people, 24 donkeys, and 384 pigs per square mile (comparatively); or 240 people, 24 donkeys and 24 pigs to one of our forty acre farms which our farmers regard as too small for a single family

The chinese have been farming organically for MUCH longer than we have, and have shown tremendous results.

Sir Albert Howard; Studied at Cambridge and conducted over 30 years of research on organic vs. conventional. lookup one of his books; An Agricultural Investment

Friend Sykes; Author: Modern Humus farming and food....Consultant to the british gov't for declining milk quality

Sir Robert McCarrison; MD in british military; conducted meticulous research on healthy vs. unhealthy diets......Well known for his studies on the Hunza.

Ehrenfired Pfieffer; introduced biodynamic farming to the US.

William Albrecht; Professor of soil science who left his position under pressure from chemical companies......All of his material is worth reading.

Lookup ANY of these folks and actually read their research, and you'll find some intersting stuff.

In a nutshell;

the closer we farm in accordance with nature, the better the product.

I don't want to write anymore, but there are a lot of studies on the microorganism and worm populations in conventional vs. organic too.
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Last edited by Mike Mallory : 11-23-2009 at 07:06 PM.
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