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Old 05-20-2014, 11:46 AM   #11
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Sorry, Darryl, but general population dont like the raw, hardcore, data so I posted a link to something even an everage joe can understand.
People here may not like raw science, but I believe most are intelligent enough to interpret it correctly when given the chance.

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Maybe this is better for those that fancy raw data: http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/5/10/3839 wfs
Did you read Luke's post? Researchers conducted a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, cross-over trial which found no evidence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity.

No Effects of Gluten in Patients With Self-Reported Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity After Dietary Reduction of Fermentable, Poorly Absorbed, Short-Chain Carbohydrates.
Biesiekierski et al. Gastronenterology 2013;145:320–328
(wfs)

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As for mozambique, old thread on this forum debunked it: http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=53972 wfs
You think that thread debunked anything? Seriously?

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Oh and also, isnt ketogenic diet advised for those with diabetes2? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/ wfs

And also this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097663 wfs

The list could go on...
Short term studies tell us nothing about long term outcomes.

Last edited by Darryl Shaw : 05-20-2014 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:06 PM   #12
Phil Washlow
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Did you read Luke's post? Researchers conducted a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, cross-over trial which found no evidence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
Followed by caveat after caveat, hardly conclusive. The study is interesting but the headlines/conclusions are absurd.
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:13 PM   #13
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

Actually, Darryl, the study you cited is also mentioned in study I linked, as a reference 21, you most likely overlooked that?

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The lack of validated biomarkers for a diagnosis not based on exclusion criteria is judged to be of paramount importance by many experts in the field. Currently a large multicenter placebo-controlled study is underway to achieve this goal and, hopefully, will provide tools for a more correct diagnosis and for more rigorous studies to establish the prevalence of NCGS in specific conditions and in the general population. Recent studies raised the possibility that, beside gluten [13] and wheat ATIs [40], low-fermentable, poorly-absorbed, short-chain carbohydrates [21] can contribute to symptoms (at least those related to IBS) experienced by NCGS patients. These new findings need corroboration through additional studies involving larger numbers of subjects. If these studies will confirm these new findings, they will probably prompt a change in nomenclature from NCGS to wheat sensitivity to reflect the fact that, beside gluten, other components of wheat may be responsible for the symptoms reported by NCGS patients.
As for the mozambique...do you really find evidence in that case sufficient to say homo sapiens orally consumed grains that include gluten?
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:32 AM   #14
Richard Deyan
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

I'm not against the idea that gluten sensitivity may not exist, but there are plenty of people who simply don't digest wheat and gluten as well as others. They have learned from anecdotal experience to simply avoid most grains and bread because it doesn't jive with them well.

The associations and correlations are indeed just that. Just because there is a correlation with eating meat and a higher risk of cancer and morbidity, doesn't mean it's a causation. There definitely happens to be a higher correlation of meat eaters who also smoke and not really live a health-conscious lifestyle.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:14 PM   #15
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

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Originally Posted by Richard Deyan View Post
I'm not against the idea that gluten sensitivity may not exist, but there are plenty of people who simply don't digest wheat and gluten as well as others. They have learned from anecdotal experience to simply avoid most grains and bread because it doesn't jive with them well.

The associations and correlations are indeed just that. Just because there is a correlation with eating meat and a higher risk of cancer and morbidity, doesn't mean it's a causation. There definitely happens to be a higher correlation of meat eaters who also smoke and not really live a health-conscious lifestyle.
While it's true that meat eaters tend to smoke more and be less health conscious than vegetarians and vegans, there is good evidence that red and processed meat consumption increase cancer risk independent of other diet and lifestyle variables.

Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity, and the Prevention of Cancer: A Global Perspective. (wfs)
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:59 AM   #16
Todd Neal
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

An interesting article. I've quietly disagreed with gluten sensitivity for a while now, but seeing as it gets people to (generally) eat less processed carbs, I'm publicly for it. As this study shows, I don't think the science is there, but so long as people lose weight and feel better, I'm happy; even if it's not the gluten that was causing the distress.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:04 PM   #17
Steve Agocs
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

I've been eating gluten-free most of last year and all of this year. LIke the last poster said, for ME, it's about calorie reduction and it's an easy "I don't eat gluten" statement to make to reinforce what can be a very problematic food for me. My ability to "portion control" when it comes to breads, sweets, cookies, brownies, etc is pretty much ZIP, so this has been a super way for me to reduce empty calories and emphasize better quality foods in my diet.

My niece has celiac disease, so yes, getting a little bloaty after a large pizza is far from it, LOL

I do think people are oversimplifying the whole matter. Gluten itself may not be a big issue for a lot of people who feel "sensitive" to wheat, but wheat and gluten aren't the same thing. Wheat contains a lot of stuff that doesn't well with everybody's gut, so while a lot of people who have classified themselves as "gluten sensitive" may not actually be gluten sensitive, they are probably still wheat sensitive on the carbohydrate and fermentables side of the equation.

Mark's Daily Apple has done some good articles on "FODMAPS" that explain this and I think this argument makes TONS of sense. To me, it explains why I may not feel wonderful eating a birthday cake but a couple beers are no problem, or why I can eat a slice of watermelon with no trouble but if I tuck into a good size portion then it's time to party. LOL
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:26 AM   #18
Glenn Pasewicz
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

I don't have the inclination to read all the sciencey raw data stuff or to read through more than one or two posts in a thread.

Is the bottom line that the researchers did not observe non-celiac gluten sensitivity?

In other words, the only gluten sensitivity was exhibited by people Dx'd with celiac disease?
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Old 06-03-2014, 12:41 PM   #19
Phil Washlow
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pasewicz View Post
I don't have the inclination to read all the sciencey raw data stuff or to read through more than one or two posts in a thread.

Is the bottom line that the researchers did not observe non-celiac gluten sensitivity?

In other words, the only gluten sensitivity was exhibited by people Dx'd with celiac disease?
The participants were on a low FODMAP diet for 2 weeks then given either High Gluten, Low Gluten + Whey, or just Whey. The results were "In all participants, gastrointestinal symptoms consistently and significantly improved during reduced FODMAP intake, but significantly worsened to a similar degree when their diets included gluten or whey protein. Gluten-specific effects were observed in only 8% of participants." Pretty much they showed that people who claim to be non celiac gluten sensitive may not have issues specifically with gluten but still feel much better on a low FODMAP diet. The journalistic conclusions, as usual, were overdramatic and inaccurate, the study only proves that more information is needed.
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:17 PM   #20
Daniel Dean
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Re: Time to jump off that gluten free train...

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Originally Posted by Glenn Pasewicz View Post
Is the bottom line that the researchers did not observe non-celiac gluten sensitivity?
In these 36 individuals, pretty much.


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Originally Posted by Glenn Pasewicz View Post
In other words, the only gluten sensitivity was exhibited by people Dx'd with celiac disease?
No people with Dx'ed celiac were included in the study, only people with self-reported NCGS.

The results seem to be limited exclusively to GI distress/symptoms. I'm fairly certain I'm not imagining my dermatitis herpetiformis.
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