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Old 06-28-2009, 06:15 PM   #11
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Thank you very much, Steven. Now I have a well defined program. I'll try to remember to report the results. I have 2.5 weeks left of waiting around for my hernia recovery, so need something to do anyway.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:45 AM   #12
Christian Lemburg
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Brad,

as for the massage - I would recommend to do it every 1-2 hours, every day, for about 1-2 mins, using a tennis ball, pressing the ball into a wall or table with your forearm (depending on arm area to be massaged). In my experience, many small sessions of self-massage along the day work MUCH better than one big session in the morning and evening or so. Most people don't do enough sessions over the day to really keep the muscle supplied with blood and "open".

The massage simply moves blood into the tissue, where it can bring in nutrients and remove waste products. No massage - muscle tightens up again - no blood to tissue - problem remains. The more often you massage, the faster the muscle will open op.

It is very OK if the area feels really sore after some sessions - this is the muscle "opening up" again, and it is a good sign. And yes, it is very painful in the beginning. Make sure you really hit those spots which replicate the pain signs you are experiencing. You can avoid bruises on the skin by putting some towel or other smooth textile between the arm and the ball.

And obviously, find out what you did wrong - e.g., too much too soon, wrong technique on problem exercises, muscle imbalance / structural problems - or the problem will probably return.

Good luck, and fast recovery,

Christian
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:40 AM   #13
Steven Low
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Skip the tennis ball and use your other hand... the dexterity in your other hand is better for mobilizing tissue better than a ball could ever once you get used to it.

Cross friction + myofascial tends to cover most bases for loosening/mobilizing which is why I suggest that.

And yeah, explanations are good.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:33 AM   #14
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Thanks Christian.

Q for both you and Steven: How should I program the exercises, stretching, and ice along with the massage if I do the massage during many short sessions rather than one or two longer ones?

Say I do the 2 min. massage 10x per day and ice the regions for 15 min. twice per day whenever I get the chance. Is that OK?

I don't think I understand what the ice accomplishes in this case because inflammation isn't the problem with GE, right? (Steven, I realize this might be in your blog, but have only had time so far to skim it. Looks very thorough BTW.)

I'm asking so many picky questions because I'm starting to get the idea tha the particulars matter for a problem as persistent as GE.

Last edited by Brad Davis; 06-29-2009 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:20 PM   #15
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Yet another question. How do I know when to stop the program? Note that my golfer's elbow pain had pretty well disappeared before I started the massage. It's back now, but that was expected.

Should I be waiting for the massage to stop resulting in more soreness?

Another idea is that I should do this for x weeks, stop, wait for all soreness to go away, and re-start pull-ups to see if the GE comes back this time--is this it?
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:27 PM   #16
Steven Low
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Your first post is answered in my blog.

Second post the soreness is obviously good. If your GE had gone away without exercises I suspect it would've come back once you start doing it again because it's chronic.

Quote:
Should I be waiting for the massage to stop resulting in more soreness?
Yes, that's probably a good idea for you to do any prehab/rehab work.

You should keep on massaging though. It's like getting a massage for sore muscles from a workout... it helps.

Quote:
Another idea is that I should do this for x weeks, stop, wait for all soreness to go away, and re-start pull-ups to see if the GE comes back this time--is this it?
Definitely not... you need to be progressive with your rehab/prehab work. Jumping straight back into pullups is probably why you keep reaggravating it.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:16 PM   #17
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Thanks again Steven. I will read your new blog before sending any more questions. I feel like I have a decent idea of what to do with this new program.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:27 AM   #18
Christian Lemburg
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Quote:
the dexterity in your other hand is better for mobilizing tissue better than a ball could ever once you get used to it
For those out there who are afraid to ruin their hands, and yet think a tennis ball does not cut it - note there are many other suitable objects available - e.g., golf balls, small wooden dowels, wooden marbles, regular marbles, etc. - they are all great to use for massage.

Just get inventive and massage regularly without injuring other parts of your body ;-) ... and yes, of course some people get away using their hands ...

Regards,

Christian
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Old 07-01-2009, 03:18 PM   #19
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Thanks again Christian.

I am finding that my right thumb is giving out pretty quickly so far, so will need to try some other tools. "Giving out" means that I'm developing a very sore joint where my thumb is connected to my hand. This is where it tends to act up. I think I'm going to have tendonitis or smoething similar there...
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:09 PM   #20
Brad Davis
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Re: Chronic Golfer's Elbow -- Q for Steven and Others

Steven and Christian, I've been at the massage, stretch, and ice routine for about a week now. I'm probably getting in five or six short sessions per day of message and stretch and ice once--can't seem to make that second one happen lately. I might be getting to 30 min. / day of massage.

The first few days, both golfer's elbow spots got pretty sore. For the last couple of days, I'm having a hard time making the right one sore or feel the GE when I press on it. Is this normal? Does it mean anything? The left one is still getting sore, but not as much.

I have some questions about the exercises. I started doing these a couple of days ago and found myself not feeling like I knew what I was doing. I started with 5 lb DB wrist curls. That was so easy that I just quit after 15-20 reps because I was getting bored. I think 10 lb would be the same. How hard are these supposed to be?

Next question. Is there an exact rice bucket routine that's recommended? I'd forgotten how much I hate wrist curls and am interested in something new. How does rice bucket work accomplish "eccentric exercise"? It would seem to me that it's a completely concentric exercise.

Last question: How 'bout grippers? If I can find an easy one, would that be good for the flexors? Similar for the extensors--I've seen the little rubber band looking ones for extensors. Would it be logical to start with easy gripper/extensors, do them for a while, then move up to a harder one, rinse and repeat? Of course, both of those would have both a concentric and eccentric contraction. Is that a problem?

Thanks as always and sorry for being such a pest!

Last edited by Brad Davis; 07-06-2009 at 03:11 PM..
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