CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-05-2005, 08:03 PM   #1
Dave Clarke
Member Dave Clarke is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne  Victoria
Posts: 61
I've been thinkng about the iron cross lately.

I read on another post that one way to develop the IC would be to do static holds of the 'up' part of the ring dip, but progressively moving the rings further and further apart, eliciting a higher strain on the lats.

Something which occured to me is that the IC is all about leverage and angles. The IC is hard bacause a large mass (body weight) is being acted on by a long lever (the arms) and a disadvantageous angle (rings at 90 deg to arms).

Thus, the previously mentioned theory on IC development stands to reason, because the gymnast starts where the rings have little/no leverage on his arms (parallel), and slowly works out to where the leverage is greatest (90 deg).

In my deep armchair reasoning, the following method of IC development may also stand to reason:

Start with your arms through the rings, nearly up to your armpits, and hold the IC. This should be fairly easy. Difficulty is increased by moving the rings further and further out towards the hands, eventually being able to do the full, proper IC.

I came to this idea by thinking about how the square of the leverage increases with the length of the lever, or something like that.

What I'm trying to say is, start the IC with a short lever, with little leverage, and work your way up to a longer one. Just like starting the L-sit with a tuck-sit: start with the legs acting as a short lever (folded up) and work your way to a longer lever (legs straight out)

Because of the exponential relationship between length of lever and force on the shoulders, holding the IC at 1/2 arm's length will not be 1/2 the difficulty of a full IC, but rather 1/4 or something like that.

All I've got to do now is try it, to see if it works.

Have I made sense? Does the theory stand up to credibility? Am I talking out of my @$$? Is it already done?

Cheers,

Dave in oz
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005, 08:10 PM   #2
Guest
Departed Guest is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 1,095
Makes total sense - Scotty Hagnas of CF Portland showed me a progression that uses the same idea. Instead of holding the rings as usual, you slip your arms through the straps above the rings and grab the rings from the outside (so they're pressing into the insides of your forearms).

Like you figured, that shortens the lever arm and makes the position easier.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 08:39 AM   #3
Roger Harrell
Affiliate Roger Harrell is offline
 
Roger Harrell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Rafael  CA
Posts: 2,318
We have strap rings in which you can slip your arms through a nylon strap that shortens the lever while keeping your hands on the rings. This does the same thing that you suggested. We use it for crosses, inverted crosses, maltese, etc. So, Dave, your theory stands up, and has been shown to work in application.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 09:41 AM   #4
Christopher Sommer
Departed Christopher Sommer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 225
Very well thought out, especially for someone with limited or no gymnastics experience. The theory is certainly sound, however this method of implementation is haphazard at best.

When using the straps or the top of the rings to improve leverage, it is nearly impossible to progressively quantify the amount of resistance you are using in your iron cross training over the long term. As there are restrictions of how much adjustability you have using the top of the rings or a strap, you must then rely on hand-spotting to increase or decrease the amount of assistance received; an iffy proposition at best and one that can quite easily lead to overtraining/overloading joint injuries.


Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

OlympicBodies@aol.com
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 09:51 AM   #5
Guest
Departed Guest is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 1,095
Coaches S & H - Do you two have any articles for IC/maltese, etc. progressions you can send us to?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 10:11 AM   #6
Christopher Sommer
Departed Christopher Sommer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 225
I have written an entire book on it.

Coach Sommer
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 03:29 PM   #7
Jeremy Jones
Affiliate Jeremy Jones is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Concord  Ca
Posts: 1,218
as an engineer I approve this idea.








not that it means anything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 05:00 PM   #8
Dave Clarke
Member Dave Clarke is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne  Victoria
Posts: 61
Thanks for the positive responses and constructive feedback. I'm not a gymnast by any means, nor an engineer. I thought of it because I work with angles, leverage and levers a lot when making longbows, however.

Coach Sommer, where do we see/get this book? Is it a layman's book, or one for already experienced gymnasts?

Cheers,

Dave in oz
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iron cross Sean Peters Exercises 2 11-15-2006 05:19 PM
Iron Cross pic? Jan Szyndler Exercises 10 12-20-2005 07:57 PM
Iron Cross Chris Longley Exercises 7 11-28-2005 05:28 AM
Iron Cross Physics Tyler Hass Fitness 6 12-08-2003 10:12 AM
Iron Cross? Kevin Roddy Fitness 9 10-30-2003 08:11 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.