CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2005, 09:19 PM   #11
Kalen Meine
Member Kalen Meine is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver  CO
Posts: 329
Roger, in his CF Live segment, talked about the benefits of flexibility. Danny talked about the failure of stretching in injury prevention. They're both right. If all you're doing when you "stretch" is beat the crap out of your muscles, and yank on tendons, and such, yeah, it'll mess you up. But I'd advice everyone to check out Bryce Lane's website (is he still around? Hasn't posted in a while.) and his discussion on "flex-ability". His take, which fits with all of Pavel's fancy-pants PNF/loaded stuff, is that you need to develop some strength in the same ROM as you've extended your flexibility to. In other words, your stretching needs to at least have a degree of external resistance to push back against. OHS, wall walks, bench and bridge pullovers, good mornings, and "conventional" stretches, but fighting an elastic band, all fit the bill.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:48 AM   #12
Jonathan Robert Long
Member Jonathan Robert Long is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: rio das ostras  rio de janeiro
Posts: 38
Dan John makes more sense, than 95% of the crap I have heard about stretching. I live in Brazil, and I have trained with jiu-jitsu guys who can kiss their own butt, outside of jiu-jitsu though, its pointless. Dan, when I come back to the U.S. can I come out and train with you?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 08:18 AM   #13
Christopher Sommer
Departed Christopher Sommer is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 225
Static stretching, or passive stretching as I refer to it, is not "bad" per se, but must simply be used correctly and at the right time for the most effective results. One point that has only been glancingly presented here is the necessity of maintaining strength throughout range of motion or "active flexibility". The following former post of mine is an introduction of the relationship between passive and dynamic flexibility.


"Passive stretching is definitely a component of my flexibility program, just not the major emphasis. My athletes begin a program comprised on passive flexibility, active flexibility, dynamic strength and static strength from the first day that they walk into the gym (In fact this physical development, takes precedence over any and all skill development). It is easier of course to build flexibility in younger athletes, however that flexibility must be balanced with strength to allow that athlete to successfully mature into a National level (or higher) competitor.

Care must be taken to not weaken the joints through excessive passive stretching. Focusing on active flexibility ensures that the joint's level of strength increases right along with its flexibility. For athletic purposes, I would rather have a "strong" beginning athlete with tight joints than one who is naturally "loose". With correct training, I can develope the required flexiblity in the "tight" athlete.

As a side note, I have found that passive flexibility training only, past a certain point, has little effect on a very strong athlete or the very tight (a category that most adults would fall into), while active flexibility and dynamic stretching movements result in much greater and faster results without compromising their strength levels (or in other words, weakening the amount of leverage they can bring to bear on an athletic movement).

For adults, I have found that they as well respond much better to a mixture of passive and active flexibility. An example would be stretching a "pike". Training the stiff leg deadlift with a pause at the bottom or windmills done with legs nearly straight usually gives much faster flexibility results than simply sitting in a pike on the floor and stretching. The same with wall walks for bridge flexibility as opposed to simply pushing up into a bridge.

In my opinion, the body performs best from a foundation of strength and this seems to apply to flexibility training as well."


Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

OlympicBodies@aol.com

http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/ar...&articleid=229
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 11:16 AM   #14
Robert Wolf
Member Robert Wolf is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chico  CA
Posts: 2,669
Kreiki!!! Dan John the result of one of my experiments....if I get Brad's help on this I think we can get a reasonable Jessica Simpson clone...One who O-lifts, drinks scotch and curses...hmmm


Outside of capoeira and the few rudimentary gymnastics moves I tinker with I have found the O-lifts to be all the flexibility training I need.
It is a struggle to get most people into a good front squat/OHS but they feel like super heroes once they achieve these things.

We have been using the "bag-o-potatoes" stretch ala-Dan John with great success.
Robb
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 04:50 PM   #15
Jason Erickson
Member Jason Erickson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis  MN
Posts: 198
Thank you, Coach Sommer. Your statement reflects my own experiences as well!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 05:41 PM   #16
Dave Clarke
Member Dave Clarke is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne  Victoria
Posts: 61
In the Australian Army, at basic training at least, strecthing before exercis is not done. The Army did a study and found there to be no correlation between strtching before exercise and injury prevention. It was/is better to warm up with something 'real': shadow boxing, agility drills, squats etc. We do strecth after though.

Dave in oz
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 11:20 PM   #17
Adam Grant
Member Adam Grant is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toronto  Ontario
Posts: 20
I was told that stretching after resistance training helps to further tear muscle fibers, which leaves the body with more to reconstruct (larger muscles). Is this true?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2005, 06:15 PM   #18
Kawika Harbottle
Member Kawika Harbottle is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kane'ohe/Kahalu'u/Hilo/Mililani  HI
Posts: 433
What are stretching workouts and who advocates stretching workouts and aerobic workouts for sprinters, gymnasts, and full contact fighters?

A colleague has an impression that the above athletes perform best when doing stretching workouts and aerobic workouts. I disagreed of course.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2005, 08:32 PM   #19
Karl Geissler
Affiliate Karl Geissler is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Urbana  IL
Posts: 257
First of all, to the man who is calling himself Dan John, I have met Dan John, and you my friend are no Dan John :-)

My wife cleaned up my files again, and I cannot find it. However, there is a good study that came out in one of the sports medicine journals about static stretching. It was a review of 20 years of literature and it pretty much concluded that there was no real evidence of any benefits to static stretching prior to work. There seems to be some beneficial evidence that static stretching at the conclusion could have a calming effect on the nervous system and help to top improve flexibility. I have also spoken to a number of friends who question if static stretching could have a negative affect upon the nervous system prior to workout or competition. Bottom line, I do not use static stretching prior to workout or competition.

However, this past weekend in Golden proved to me that I personally need to incorporate more stretching into some form of cool-down. Darn, my rear end got handed to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 01:12 PM   #20
Sonia Ng
Departed Sonia Ng is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 91
Do whatever works,assuming you know enough about yourself to do so.(instead of a "one-size fits everyone" approach,imo)

Example-I had great flexibility BEFORE doing any type of Oly Lifting...no problems hitting rock-bottom in a squat,no problems doing weighted OHSquats,etc

I suffer in my overall sense of well-being if I do not have a thorough static stretching cool-down session.

Generally, I do not incorporate static stretches beyond 5-10 secs in my warm-up,but I WILL incorporate 30-60 stretches after breaking out in a sweat-IF I feel some muscles are still too tight or verging on cramping(for whatever reason...)

I know myself well enough to identify the "hot-spots" in my body.

Self-knowledge is much more important then dogmatic statements.

If flexibility is hampering one's performance-obviously,this needs to be addressed.

Practicing the Oly Lifts will improve your flexibility,if it was bad to begin with-BUT,just as there are the "assistant exercise" to improve one's Oly Lifts-there are "assistant stretching" exercises to improve general flexibility(not just for Oly Lifting)

Twinning both-could hasten one's flexibility vs just choosing "one method"

JMO.





  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dan John's From the Ground Up Jan Szyndler Equipment 16 11-25-2009 03:44 PM
MT. View Fire workouts Randy Nelson Workout Logs 45 10-10-2006 07:17 AM
Long-tails--->Your view Alexander Karatis Community 16 05-22-2006 01:45 PM
What's the view with belts? Seral Mehmet Starting 18 02-06-2006 07:08 AM
Dan John's "The Move" Troy Archie Exercises 3 10-07-2005 07:35 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.