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Old 05-20-2014, 02:56 PM   #1
Scott Siegel
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Programming Advice

So, I have been doing Crossfit since last July and have truly loved it and it has advanced my love for lifting and getting stronger and getting fitter. However, right now I feel that I really would like to get stronger overall without losing the endurance capacity that I have gained while doing Crossfit. I have been looking into a lot of different programming. Some of the programs I have looked into are (Wendler 5/3/1, Invictus, Outlaw, CFFB and Catalyst Athletics). I have looked through the forum a good deal to get ideas and was hoping I could get some advice on what program may be the best for me, or shoulder I just go back to my boxed programming for a while and see how things go (we have been doing team programming for a competition at the end of this month). My ultimate goal is increased strength without loss of endurance. In addition, I am concerned if I do a simply strength program (Wendler) I will get bored with the fact that you do fewer lifts per day.

My stats:
33 y.o M, 5'8", 180lbs
Back squat = 305lbs, Front Squat = 260lbs, Deadlift = 365lbs, Clean = 190lbs, C&J = 170lbs, Snatch = 135lbs, Bench press = 205lbs (some of these may be higher as I haven't tested them in a while)
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:47 PM   #2
Tate Dimech
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Re: Programming Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Siegel View Post
So, I have been doing Crossfit since last July and have truly loved it and it has advanced my love for lifting and getting stronger and getting fitter. However, right now I feel that I really would like to get stronger overall without losing the endurance capacity that I have gained while doing Crossfit. I have been looking into a lot of different programming. Some of the programs I have looked into are (Wendler 5/3/1, Invictus, Outlaw, CFFB and Catalyst Athletics). I have looked through the forum a good deal to get ideas and was hoping I could get some advice on what program may be the best for me, or shoulder I just go back to my boxed programming for a while and see how things go (we have been doing team programming for a competition at the end of this month). My ultimate goal is increased strength without loss of endurance. In addition, I am concerned if I do a simply strength program (Wendler) I will get bored with the fact that you do fewer lifts per day.

My stats:
33 y.o M, 5'8", 180lbs
Back squat = 305lbs, Front Squat = 260lbs, Deadlift = 365lbs, Clean = 190lbs, C&J = 170lbs, Snatch = 135lbs, Bench press = 205lbs (some of these may be higher as I haven't tested them in a while)
This is the dilemma that many people face on these boards and in the wider community. Seeing your lifts going up is a great feeling so a lot of people chase that. Even "professional" CF'ers have been pursuing oly lifting (Aja Barto) to see where that can take them'.

The fact is to get the most out of a strength program you have to limit the amount of conditioning work you do. This is in order for the body to recover and for you to be hitting your progressions as per the program. So there are a few questions you need to ask yourself.
  1. Am I willing to lose some conditioning to have strength gains?
  2. OR, am I willing for progressions to take a little bit longer than programmed in order to maintain conditioning?

I myself tried to follow SS last year and while progression was awesome like you said it is as boring as ****. After dabbling with CF at a box for a while and having time off I decided to dive head on into CFFB programming and have set up a home gym accordingly. It is seriously good programming IMO and still has strength progressions every week (Squat, DL, Pow Clean, Strict Press and Bench) while also throwing in a metcon every day. You won't be snatching much on this programming though.

I was the perfect candidate because (a) I am unfit as anything and (b) I am weak as anything so I can kill two birds with one stone.

Read into the programs more and there are a number of threads on here where people have given their reviews and thoughts on programming.

GL
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:49 PM   #3
Steven Wingo
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Re: Programming Advice

There are some folks on here who know a lot about programming. It will probably help them if you describe the programming you have been doing at your box. It is hard for them to compare and give advice without having an idea what your programming has been like. Lots of boxes mimic the programming from some of the well known sites which have strong followings because of their past success and current athletes who follow their programming (Invictis, Competitor's WOD, OPT, and so on) so you may already be doing something similar.
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Old 05-20-2014, 11:35 PM   #4
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Programming Advice

Simple solution to add your box's programming. Make sure you squat and deadlift at once once per week, possibly twice on the squat, press and/or bench press and maybe add in doing bent over rows on one day.

3x5, 5x5, something like that or ramp up to a max single, 5x3 or 3x5 as back off. 3r sets at 85-90% of the single, 5r sets at 80-85% of the single. or even less like 80% for 3r, 70% for 5r.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:01 AM   #5
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Programming Advice

Tate

Quote:
I was the perfect candidate because (a) I am unfit as anything and (b) I am weak as anything so I can kill two birds with one stone.
What were your numbers like and how much you've improved?

For OP, also check Chris Mason's conjugate program.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:04 PM   #6
Chris Mason
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Re: Programming Advice

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Tate



What were your numbers like and how much you've improved?

For OP, also check Chris Mason's conjugate program.
Thanks for the mention. I agree, I think my program would work well for his needs. Pay the small fee for the journal here and you can access it.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:48 AM   #7
Tate Dimech
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Re: Programming Advice

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Tate



What were your numbers like and how much you've improved?

For OP, also check Chris Mason's conjugate program.
Hi Dare,

I have only been following for about a month. Started BS @ 80kg (3x5) and am up to 97.5kg. DL started at 110kg (5rm) and hit 130kg today - although I will reset this next time for quality reps. Power clean, press and bench I have added a little bit of weight (these don't come up as much).
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:19 PM   #8
Scott Siegel
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Re: Programming Advice

I have read through your article Chris on Crossfit Conjugate and think that your program may work for me. I was however originally thinking of doing 5/3/1, which is 4 days a week, plus 1 day of Oly lifting a week and 1 day of light met con. Thoughts?

Also, Chris can you suggest some basic templates for met cons that work well with your program? I know you said low weight, high rep stuff, but did you mean more body weight stuff? Should you do a more leg intensive met con after your ME upper body day or would it really matter?

Just trying to think this all through so that I can do the best for my body. Thanks for all the advise.
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:06 PM   #9
Shane Atkinson
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Re: Programming Advice

Perfect thread for me to trip up on. I am researching where I need to be with programming myself. I was doing the advanced portion of the OPT "Get Fit Quick" program but quickly realized not doing CrossFit in a long while has crushed me and "advanced" is no longer for me. I need to get back to the basics and was looking to do CFFB as well.

Our numbers are close so I am Interested in seeing where this thread goes.

My number 1 issue is defining my goal. I want to get stronger while increasing my conditioning. I am ok with slow gains. I enjoy METCONs but LOVE lifting heavy.

Been researching Chris Mason's program too, but I know I fail to push myself if I create my own METCONs. IE; I pick exercises I am ok or good at, skipping my weaknesses.

(Not to self, stop taking breaks from CrossFit.)
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:06 AM   #10
Scott Siegel
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Re: Programming Advice

So, I had recently made my final decision on what to do. I was going to 5/3/1 the 4 days/week plan and then do one day of week of Oly Lifting (one week clean, one week snatch) and then one day of met con/active recovery work.

Here is where the indecisiveness comes in. My box has recently started an Oly Lifting Barbell club with a Level 3 coach. It is a little extra cash each month, but it is twice a week. So, I thought I could just do my 5/3/1 and work it around the Oly lifting class. Or I could go back to my boxes WODs and do the Oly Lifting on those particular day. Or just do CFFB which has elements of 5/3/1 and oly lifting in it also. My overall goal is strength. Plus the part I love the most about CF is the lifting and gymnastics, I could do without the cardio aspects, lol. THOUGHTS? ADVICE?

Also, some examples of my boxes programming (FYI - random days)
WU: 50 air squats, 15 KBS, Mobility
Skill: FS 7x2 (pause at bottom)
Metcom: 3 RFT (400m run, 10 push up, 10 strict pull up)
Aftermath: 400m sled drag (light)

WU: 1000m row, mobility
Skill: BS 4x5 (wokr up to 75%)
Metcon: 9 min AMRAP (10 box jump over, 10 OHS, 20 DU)
AM: 4x50 farmers carry (heavy)

WU: 75 DU, 15 burpees, Mobility
Skill: snatch grip DL, 6x2
Skill: ring rows 4x max reps
Metcon: 8 min AMRAP (10 slam ball, 10 burpee, 10 wall ball)
AM: 100m dog sled sprint

WU: 400m run, 25 air squats, 20 KBS, Mobility
Skill: FS 8x3 (work up to 85%)
Metcon: 12 min AMRAP (2 power clean, 3 FS, 4 BS, 5 burpees)
AM: 300m sled drag (mod wt)
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