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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 04-20-2007, 06:15 PM   #1
John de la Garza
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I'm curious.

If I did no benchpress like moves (pushups, benchpress, etc) and just focused on olympic lifts and other overhead moves would my ability to do pushups decline or improve?

Same with say pullups, would the pulling involved in olympic lifts help my pullup strength?

I believe that to get a good general strength workout one should press up out and down and the same for pulling. Is this correct or is their more carry over?

I am a ultra minimalist and would like to design a workout for my Dad that will give him strength that is going to help him age better. I want to avoid anything that can lead to muscle imbalances.

Part of me thinks just doing the basic o-lifts will give him everything he needs. The other part of me thinks I should include some pull from above and pushing out moves like pullups and pushups.

I have the tendency to overthink things.

my goals for him our to maintain strength, range of motion, and to do things that help with good posture.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:59 PM   #2
Skylar Cook
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I'd keep the pushups and pullups. These are the absolute basic functional movements, and critical (IMO) for balanced, functional fitness.

I look at it from an evolutionary context- we evolved pushing and pulling ourselves around when needed.
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Old 04-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #3
Nick Cummings
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Why would you think that push-ups and pull-ups would lead to muscle imbalances? Isn't that like blaming red lights for accidents when people drive through them?
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Old 04-22-2007, 07:08 PM   #4
Matt Thomas
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Maybe I read it wrong, but I don't think he believes the pushups will lead to muscle imbalance. I think he wants to do as few moves as possible, but isn't sure that, if he takes pushups out, the program will be balanced enough.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:21 AM   #5
John de la Garza
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Nick, I don't believe pushups or pullups will necessarily lead to imbalances.
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Old 04-23-2007, 06:00 AM   #6
Connie Morreale
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the SAID principle (specific adaptation to imposed demands) dictates that if you want to get better at doing somwething, then do it often. the specificity of doing pull-ups will make you better at pull-ups. while doing dl's and cleans wont hurt your pull-ups, and may improve the muscles that assist the pull-up, they wont show you great improvemenmnt in your pull-ups in and of themselves.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:18 AM   #7
Nick Cummings
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Then why skip two of the most basic exercises that require minimal time to master and almost no equipment? I don't see the payoff.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:06 AM   #8
Jordan Glasser
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If this is a debate on muscular imbalances, here's my opinion: When we do functional movements, we can either address these imbalances by correcting our improper technique (which is usually due to some type of muscular imbalance or flexibility issue), or keep doing them poorly and re-inforce whatever the problem is in the first place.

I Watch people in a commercial gym setting that have terrible posture, 2 guys in particular. Wherever they get their workout ideas, really aren't that bad. But their execution is, for example their squat: never close to parallel, narrow stance, using the manta-ray to sit the bar on your back, but 5 pound weights on your heels, etc... My point is, I can take their program, and coach their movements, and they would see improvements in their muscular imbalances. If they continue what they are doing, they are going to continue to look like the hunch back of Notre Dame.

If the debate doing as little as possible, then the olympic lifts are as complete of an exercise as they come. But, executing them is a different story. What is your dad's experience with them? IMO, crossfit is minimalist. We sometimes overdue certain muscle groups, so avoid those days with your olympic lifts.

Jordan
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:40 AM   #9
Samantha Preuninger
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My 2 cents here...

The O-lifts are technical, difficult to learn and dangerous if done improperly. If the purpose of these workouts is to preserve quality of life, you can get all of those benefits by doing easier versions/component parts of the lifts, rather than the full lifts themselves.

And yes, I think workouts should include pushing and pulling up, out and down for balance. Also both squatting and deadlifting. Not to say that every workout needs all these, but give him a variety of workouts with 1 squat variation, 1 deadlift variation, 1 push and 1 pull. Throw in a couple of O-lift components (jump squat, high pull, dumbbell snatch/swing/clean, push press, etc.) and he will get all the "fitness" benefits of O-lifting without the danger. Add a couple of core exercises too. And lots of stretching!

If he's already fit, some sprint work on non-lifting days would also be beneficial. If your dad's not up to sprinting, jogging or even walking would be fine.

Finally, make sure there are one or two rest days per week. You need a lot more recovery time as you age.
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Old 04-25-2007, 09:57 AM   #10
Wayne Nelson
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John, It seems like you are developing a training program that you think he needs. Some other issues to consider as you develop a minimalist routine would include (assuming your father wants to do this sort of thing): what kind of activities does he enjoy or want to pursue; what kinds of movements does he utilize in daily life; are balance and mobility important; can he do the activities you suggest in an environment he feels comfortable with; and will uni-planar activities, like most all the ones you mentioned, closely replicate the movements that are your father’s goals and wants, or should other types of exercises be included.

Routines that are most effective in improving performance in daily activities and sport replicate the goal activites (S.A.I.D.), include mainly multi-planar movements requiring balance, and reinforce agility needs. When exercises replicate the goal activities they are more functional in nature. This is known as dynamic correspondence.
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