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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #1
Matt Thomas
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How much running?

In your estimation what is the minimal amount of running that it would require to be decent at running? Specifically, to be able to run a 6ish minute mile and a 13:00ish 2 mile for the army PT test? I don't think hese times are that exceptional, but it would be good for me at the moment and I don't really need or desire to be any faster.

Right now I run about a 14:00 2 mile. My fastest ever is a 12:30 at a bodyweight of about 165 - 170. I currently weight 185. My training revolves mostly around getting as strong as possible and I really have no desire to drop back down to the 170 range for running sake. So I need to get faster, while being heavier, but I want to do the minimum amount to make that happen so that my focus won't be taken away from getting stronger. Any suggestions?
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
Daniel Wheeler
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Re: How much running?

Well, the easiest way to get fast is to do a bunch of sprinting.

I used a program found over on specialtactics.com where the interval day on Thursday was 8x200, 6x 400, 4x 800, 2x 1mi and a cool down of 1x2mi. My times dropped like a rock not doing any of the rest of the week except for one 3 mi test on mondays. The rest of the time was water work and oly lifting.

I'll say that the above is still more than you need by far.

Do some 8x200s at 35-40 sec each jog to the start and go again etc on one day and some 6x4's at about 1:15-130 per another day for 3 weeks then retest the next Monday and see where its at. adjust Rinse repeat
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #3
Chris Mason
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Re: How much running?

Pull a sled (say a sled + 45-70 lbs) using a walking cadence for 1 mile twice per week. Do it for 4 weeks and then retest your 2 mile run the next week.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #4
Matt Thomas
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Re: How much running?

Thanks for the input. I especially like the idea of the sled. Whered you get that one Chris? Have you implemented it with anyone before?
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:26 PM   #5
Daniel Wheeler
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Re: How much running?

I'm sure he'll answer, but Westside employs the sled quite a bit. I wish I had one of my own. I will eventually get around to building one some day.
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:15 AM   #6
Larry Bruce
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Re: How much running?

How much time do you have to play with?

A sled walk is similar to Joel Jamieson's HICT method, in that you use
a high level of resistance at a low cadence to stimulate aerobic muscular adaptations of the faster twich fibers. That's perfect for for strength endurance. It really happens with any activity but apparently even more this way. He would recommend two 10 minute sets keeping the HR below anerobic threshold levels, roughly 80% max HR, 2x week.

I also agree that intervals could also be helpful. That's more traditionally used for sure.

Would be curious how it goes for you, however you do it!

P.S. Did a quick search and found this from Joel:

Quote:
Yes, it can be very effective. Not sure if you saw the research link someone posted on my site awhile back on cyclists, but they basically used an HICT type protocol and saw some very impressive improvements even though they were in-season. I can't remember the exact numbers but they were substantial, it's the only direct research I've seen using this type of method as I described in the book.

I've also literally seen guys take 1 minute or more off a 1.5 mile run time even without doing much running at all while using HICT. In my experience, you'll likely see about 6 weeks worth of solid improvements when you start using the method and then they'll start to taper off. Go from HICT for about 6 weeks ----> CPI twice a week for 2-3 weeks and I can guarantee you'll be impressed with the results.

Last edited by Larry Bruce; 06-09-2012 at 06:26 AM..
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:31 AM   #7
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: How much running?

i would be very interested to know you 400, 800, and 1 mile time. you need to figure out if your issue is endurance, speed, or pace...

when you run your 2 miles, is it your heart/lungs that give out or you legs that give out, or, is it just a mental thing?

one thing you need to do is start running with a watch and make sure you know your quarter mile marks. this can be a track or any other course where you know every quarter mile spot. it is important you start knowing what the right pace feels like.

one method we used was to start running wearing 1lb ankle weights and a 5 to 10 lb vest. then when you run without it you feel like you can fly. this was cheap and easy and worked great and we didn't have to increase the amount or way we ran.

another thing i've done with numerous people is to start having them run the first quarter mile for the pace they want, then run the rest at their current pace. in a week or two bump it up to the first half mile, so on and so forth. this keeps them motivated as they constantly set new PR's, and within 4 or 5 months they are running the pace they want.

for guys that just have pure speed problems, then obviously the answer is sprints.

as for how much is the minimum, that is very individual. and truth is, it might not go well with your goals of getting bigger and stronger. if your focus is bigger and stronger you might have to be happy with your 14 minutes. or you may have to just maintain strength and weight for a few months while you improve running. if you are super weak or super out of shape then you can improve both at the same time pretty easy, but you are at a level where it gets harder. some can do it but some can't. my weight was right around 200 at 5'7" the whole time i was in and i was always a guy that had to run alot. some people seem to be able to run good by doing metcons, maintaining GPP, and running some intervals and perhaps one long run a week. but it never worked for me and others i know. i had to run 2 -3 miles at least 3 - 4 times a week or else i lost it fast. but i have never been good at endurance, and for me it was a muscle thing not a heart lungs thing or speed thing. my body tends to very heavily favor the fast twitch / anerobic side of things.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:17 AM   #8
Michael Henry
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Re: How much running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Wheeler View Post
Well, the easiest way to get fast is to do a bunch of sprinting.

I used a program found over on specialtactics.com where the interval day on Thursday was 8x200, 6x 400, 4x 800, 2x 1mi and a cool down of 1x2mi. My times dropped like a rock not doing any of the rest of the week except for one 3 mi test on mondays. The rest of the time was water work and oly lifting.

I'll say that the above is still more than you need by far.

Do some 8x200s at 35-40 sec each jog to the start and go again etc on one day and some 6x4's at about 1:15-130 per another day for 3 weeks then retest the next Monday and see where its at. adjust Rinse repeat
Yeah I'm not saying the sled stuff doesn't work, but why reinvent the wheel? 400's and 800's 1-2 times a week, then retest. This is personal experience, but I feel that the difference between 14:00 and 13:00 is HUGE!. At your new BW, you have to show you body what a 6:00-6:30/mile feels like, and longer sprints help that. Especially if you don't run that often. Sleds maybe give you the capacity to drop your time, but so do sprints. Plus, sprints give you the confidence that you can actually run faster since it is a more practical application of your increased capacity to run faster. That sentence sounds redundant on purpose.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:36 AM   #9
Larry Bruce
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Re: How much running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Henry View Post
Yeah I'm not saying the sled stuff doesn't work, but why reinvent the wheel? 400's and 800's 1-2 times a week, then retest. This is personal experience, but I feel that the difference between 14:00 and 13:00 is HUGE!. At your new BW, you have to show you body what a 6:00-6:30/mile feels like, and longer sprints help that. Especially if you don't run that often. Sleds maybe give you the capacity to drop your time, but so do sprints. Plus, sprints give you the confidence that you can actually run faster since it is a more practical application of your increased capacity to run faster. That sentence sounds redundant on purpose.
I agree with what you say though it's not to say that one could not use both

Sprinting like you say is going to be 1-2x/ week because it will take a lot out of you and take more to recover from. Pushing it during sprinting is one of the more likely causes of injury.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:58 AM   #10
James Orr
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Re: How much running?

Would wearing a 40 lb. vest have the same effect as pulling a 45 lb. sled?
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