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Old 07-22-2010, 09:16 AM   #41
Kevin Bensette
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Unknown and unknowable...

Agree or disagree, it's a critical part of the Crossfit methodology.

On the rings issue, that's on the team in question. Muscle-ups were in the Games last year and appear on the mainpage on a regular basis. If you weren't expecting them, you weren't paying attention.

Katherine
Oh yeah I agree it's on the club for not using rings. I'm a member of a box that opened up just over 2 months ago and there have been 4-5 sets of rings there since I joined.

But we don't have a 12 foot wall or a 20 foot rope. The only walls we have are the ones keeping the outside from the inside and there aren't any ropes. I haven't climbed a rope since high school...

I love crossfit, but given what I see...I'm a little discouraged with my potential to be a future competitor. I just don't want to go sub 200 pounds again, my lean body mass is 190 pounds...I worked hard to get there.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:27 AM   #42
Justin McCallon
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Kevin Bensette View Post
So you're willing to bust your *** dieting and training for 6-9 months and just show up blindly and compete in a series of events that you may have not even trained for?

Count me out on that one...

I still find it a bit odd that I show up to the gym not having a clue what I will be doing that day.
I know what I'm going to do every day.
http://www.cathletics.com/articles/i...ty&shortyID=53 WFS
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:37 AM   #43
Kevin Bensette
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Steven Ngo View Post
interesting. i wonder if something can be setup like keeping the main competition as it is (bunch of wods spread out throughout the weekend and determining an overall winner) but then having competitions for individual events as well.

we sometimes refer to Fran as the "100 meter dash" of crossfit. well then, why not do that?

Use Fran (just as an example). break it down into heats. top 4 advance. onto the semifinals, then finals. i think spectators get much more into it when they can see who wins at that very moment than trying to determine winner by calculating points. that's why the last event in '08 was so exciting.
Here's my idea...

Scoring... Just like this year with 1 exception, 1 fatal flaw in this years scoring.

When you cut people from the competition, assign them their final rank and remove them from the scoring. So when you cut down to 24, the guy who finished last in "event 3" but placed well enough in 1 & 2 to advance is now scored as 24th/24 in that 3rd event.

Have a standard series of events annually.

Day 1 - Morning/Afternoon

Set Event #1 - Crossfit Total

Set Event #2 - A really hard WOD

Set Event #3 - 5k row

Cut to 48

Evening Event - Something funky like that sandbag event, but instead of a wheelbarrow make it functional. Make them push a prowler one way and rope pull the weight back in the other direction.

Cut to 36

Day 2

A set combo like the Double Helen + Max Weight Overhead, but allow more time for the max overhead. Let's make it interesting, make it your 2 or 3 highest lifts combined. Which will alow the quicker recovering athletes to put up a nice average, but the stronger athletes can put up a few safe lifts and then rest for a few minutes before trying a big 1RM with 20 seconds left.

Cut to 24

Obsticle course event that will change from year to year, but will draw from a standard list of events.

Cut to 16

Day 3 - Final Round

Clean & Jerk - 3 attempts at a 1RM

Snatch - 3 attempts at a 1RM

500m Row

Lunch Break

Standard WOD

1-2 hour break

5k Run
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:43 AM   #44
Justin McCallon
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

Anyway I'm bored so I'll explain this point again. I think your view is common among people that haven't done CF very long or aren't very theoretical-minded and more pragmatic (that's not an in insult).

The CrossFit Games are a test of General Fitness. They want to test Work Capacity Across Broad Time and Modal Domains.

Basically, that means that given any random physical task, they want to see who is most likely to do best on it. The problem with them telling you the movements, or the times, or the events way ahead of time, is that you'll train specifically for those events. So, you'll be good, specifically, at ~10 or so events.

Well, that sounds a lot like a Decathlon. A Decathlon does an okay job of testing your ability at 10 events that kinda vary in modalities.

But it wouldn't test your ability for a task you haven't specifically prepared for. The point of the Games is to make up a sample of tests that cumulatively test work capacity across broad time and modal domains, to not let anyone know what they could be, and to see whose system prepares best for general fitness.

Put another way, you are asking for the CrossFit Games to test General Fitness by having specific events. You can't really do that.


The one counter-point I'll make is that Strongman does this a little differently and it makes some sense from a physiology standpoint. If you are experienced in an event you have a big advantage over someone without experience. For example, let's say there are 30 events that might come up in Strongman. If you happen to only do 10 of those, and those are the 10 that happen to come up, you're going to have a big advantage over someone that practiced all 30. Likewise, if someone else practiced a different ten and none of them came up, the person that practiced all 30 will be at a big advantage over him. So, to get rid of the luck factor, in most competitions they let people know what the events are going to be a few weeks ahead of time so everyone gets a chance to practice. (Stu may have more accurate info on this -- my S&C coach was a strongman and was explaining this to me earlier this week). The point being that they want to take the luck factor out.

That said, in CF, there are sooo many more possible event combinations that you really can't get lucky and have trained them specifically.

This is all in theory, though. CFHQ likes to ignore the "unknown and unknowable" deal and pick events that the main page has basically specifically prepared you for -- there's like 30 or so core CrossFit movements and 80%+ of the competitions are generally dedicated to them). I think that's BS.


Also, none of this has anything to do with you being too big for the Games. I'm 210lbs and have around 196lbs LBM or so right now and I'm still bulking up, so I can sympathize that you're ****ed the Games hate on the big people... but that's just by the nature of the way HQ poorly programmed.. It doesn't have anything to do with them programming randomly.
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Last edited by Justin McCallon : 07-22-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:45 AM   #45
Ewen Roth
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Kevin Bensette View Post
... but instead of a wheelbarrow make it functional. Make them push a prowler...
I'm reaching my saturation point on the whole scoring/format debate, but this drew some lulz from me. I propose we strike the word "functional" from the dictionary.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:04 AM   #46
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Kevin Bensette View Post
But we don't have a 12 foot wall or a 20 foot rope. The only walls we have are the ones keeping the outside from the inside and there aren't any ropes. I haven't climbed a rope since high school...
Got a ceiling? That's where my box anchors their ropes.

Rope climbs don't come up as often as muscle-ups, but they aren't completely out of the blue, either. Same with pistols.

Katherine
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:06 AM   #47
Justin McCallon
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Got a ceiling? That's where my box anchors their ropes.

Rope climbs don't come up as often as muscle-ups, but they aren't completely out of the blue, either. Same with pistols.

Katherine
Unknown and unknowable, you say?
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:08 AM   #48
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
I'm reaching my saturation point on the whole scoring/format debate, but this drew some lulz from me. I propose we strike the word "functional" from the dictionary.
Indeed. If a prowler is more functional than a wheelbarrow full of sandbags, the word has lost all meaning.

Katherine
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #49
Stu Christensen
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

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Originally Posted by Ben Sparks View Post
I'd personally love to see it be a lot less complicated. It seems incomprehensible - because it is.

Fittest on earth? Fine - 9 events, 3 modalities, 3 energy pathways. Mix events randomly over 2-2.5 days

Group 1 events:
Max snatch
40 m run
Hold Iron cross for time

Group 2 events:
800 m run
Max # of 225lb squats in 3 minutes
Fran

Group 3 events:
10K run
Eva or Murph
Long chipper like '09 final event

It would be hard to argue about the winners... and it represents CF just fine, yet favors almost no-one.
Exactly and I 100% agree. This is what I said in a few threads a few days ago. Like your post, everyone ignored mine too. BUT...it is the solution I think.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:56 AM   #50
Shane Skowron
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Re: Concerned what effect the 2010 programming will have on future competitors :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Sparks View Post
I'd personally love to see it be a lot less complicated. It seems incomprehensible - because it is.

Fittest on earth? Fine - 9 events, 3 modalities, 3 energy pathways. Mix events randomly over 2-2.5 days

Group 1 events:
Max snatch
40 m run
Hold Iron cross for time

Group 2 events:
800 m run
Max # of 225lb squats in 3 minutes
Fran

Group 3 events:
10K run
Eva or Murph
Long chipper like '09 final event

It would be hard to argue about the winners... and it represents CF just fine, yet favors almost no-one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Christensen View Post
Exactly and I 100% agree. This is what I said in a few threads a few days ago. Like your post, everyone ignored mine too. BUT...it is the solution I think.

Ben, that's a great idea. I proposed a similar idea a few weeks ago.

This is my proposed CrossFit Games (or Fitness Games, since CF will never adopt it):

Day 1:

1RM Deadlift
1RM Bench press
Secret Service Snatch Test (10 minute AMRAP KB snatch 24kg)
"Fran"
10k run

Day 2:

100m dash
Max strict pullups with 10kg belt
1RM Snatch
Triathlon: 1000m row, 200m swim, 1000m run


Here's why I think it's the best best of fitness you can fit into a weekend:
  • 9 events, and no particular quality dominates them all
  • all energy pathways used
  • utilizes the 4 basic movements: opening of hips, closing of hips, pushing, and pulling
  • balanced between upper body and lower body
  • easy to judge (Fran and SSSN being the exceptions)
  • there are advanced standards for each of these, so athletes know where they need to improve.
  • logistically simple to organize
  • tests raw endurance, strength, power, speed, and muscular endurance
  • balance, agility, coordination, and accuracy are all tested, but all of these are things that the average athlete should be able to do with little skill training
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