CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Nutrition
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-28-2006, 04:17 AM   #1
Doug Sunshine
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
I've been searching the posts for an answer to this question but then thought I might just make my own post.

Recently I have decided that I will give up eating meat because I feel it is unethical. I am intrigued by the Paleo diet and think there is a lot of merit to it. Is there any modification I can make to reconcile the two ideas and provide for my own fitness/nutrition?

If not, does the Zone diet have an option for veg?

I am attempting to do right by my body without sacrificing my morals.

Note: I believe it is permissible to eat dairy, but not meats including fish, fowl, or red meat.

Thanks very much for your help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 05:04 AM   #2
David Cynamon
Member David Cynamon is offline
 
David Cynamon's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Baltimore  MD
Posts: 79
Doug,
if you're trying paleo and you don't eat any meat or fish, then you don't have very many protein choices. If you're just doing Zone, then you can use dairy and soy for protein, but in paleo, as far as I know, your main source of protein is going to be hemp seed, probably easiest to use in a powder for shakes. If you search around, you can find some more info on it.
Barry Sears discusses how to eat Zone as a vegetarian in Mastering the Zone and I think he has a whole seperate book discussing it(The Soy Zone)

I was wondering why you feel it is unethical to eat meat: is it because you don't want to support the industry that you feel is not treating animals properly, or because you feel that killing animals for food is no different than murdering people, or do you have some other reasoning to support your feelings regarding eating meat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 05:52 AM   #3
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
I'm starting to see that a part of my practice is going to be "repairing" vegetarians from their diets.

While we have this wonderful mind/spirit that can choose to make ethical decisions like this, there are certain compounds in animal products that our physical body cannot do without. It's quite simple. You need to supplement your diet heavily with some source of EPA/DHA and a B12/folic acid combination. Don't believe the vegan propaganda that you can get these things from algae. It doesn't work that way in the human body.

If you believe the image of a human suckling a cow is more natural than hunting, feel free.

Anyway, tempeh. Lots and lots of tempeh. Only fermented soy (tempeh, miso, natto, koji, etc.). Note that tofu is not on that list. Don't forget the hemp seed protein.

The sickest I have ever been was as a lacto-ovo-soy-vegetarian, even when I was getting 125+ grams of protein a day (that's still what I do now and I'm healthier than I've ever been).
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 07:03 AM   #4
Patrick Kennedy
Member Patrick Kennedy is offline
 
Patrick Kennedy's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hartford  CT
Posts: 68
Doug,
You state "I feel it is unethical." Like David, I am curious about the reasoning behind your decision.

In case you have children, I offer the following site for your further consideration.

Vegetarianism




  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 07:23 AM   #5
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
What I meant to say in my previous post is that vegetarian diets often must be supplemented with specific essential fatty acids and B vitamins in order to even approach acceptable human nutrition.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 12:12 PM   #6
Robert Wolf
Member Robert Wolf is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chico  CA
Posts: 2,669
Joseph Campbell made the observation (paraphrasing here...original quote is in the Joseph Campbell companion) "Vegetarianism is the first turning away, the first separation of Man from the world of which he is a part. It is from this point that Man assumes the knowledge of right and wrong, life and death and we observe the phenomena of war and the death penalty."

This was an observation about the differences between Hunter Gatherer societies in which vegetarianism does not exist and agrarian societies where we start to see these phenomena.

Yoga and the Vedic teachings hold vegetarianism in high regard yet these same teachings advocated female infanticide and the practice of burning the widow in her husband’s funeral pyre. I wonder how popular that stuff would be if people knew how it was practiced in the old country.

The morality issue does not hold water. Farming kills millions of small mammals, reptiles, birds and unimaginable amounts of biomass in the form of insects and invertebrates. I guess we can close our eyes to that when we carve into our Tofurky.

Sorry if I am being a jerk here, but the morality argument just does not fly. You will take a hit with regards to health limiting yourself to dairy and soy. If you want to stick to this however the Soy Miracle Zone should get you where you need to go. The protein Power lifeplan folks have a message board with a subsection devoted to vegetarians..I think at www.eatprotein.com. A little known protein source is Seitan (wheat gluten) and it typifies all the health promoting benefits of a vegetarian diet:
http://www.celiac.org/
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006, 10:16 PM   #7
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
www.beyondveg.com is always good, grounded reading.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:05 AM   #8
Doug Sunshine
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
Hi all,

Thanks so much for your extremely detailed and helpful posts. The more Crossfit people I come into contact with, the more I understand that the people who frequent this site do so because they have a passion for fitness and well-being and not for any personal gain. That is truly admirable.

I didn't want to explain my justification for believing that eating meat is unethical because I didn't want to burden everybody with an overlong post. If you are interested, here are my ideas in short. These are my personal beliefs, and I would not impress them upon anyone else. In addition, I am currently a meat-eater because I went veg for six months and I was extremely unhealthy (I did it in the absolute worst way possible).

Why don't we eat humans? It's meat like any other. In times of distress, it could be put to good use. I, and in all probability you as well, don't eat humans because you see them as an extension of yourself. It may not be your flesh, but it is flesh like yours and as such it is a metaphysical extension of yourself. In previous eras it was viewed as permissible to eat the flesh of an opponent, some "other" whose flesh is not an extension of one's own. Nowadays, we dismiss such things as superstition. Today, eating any ANY human's flesh is impermissible in our minds. We have learned to embrace the totality of humanity as "self-extensions."

It is my opinion that morality itself is the ability to treat others as extensions of oneself. The more we can expand this ability, the "gooder" we are. When I can see myself in my enemy, in a criminal, in a base person, I expand my goodness (even if I oppose who they are and what they do by any means necessary. Just because they are my extension does not mean I do not struggle against them).

It is my opinion that the more developed an organism's pain receptors and cognitive ability, the more pertinent our morality system, our self-extension, becomes to that organism. Mammals feel in a way that insects do not. Animals feel in a way that plants do not. Each concentric circles demands less responsibility from us.

In the past, vegetarianism was not technologically possible for humans. For all I know, it is still not possible for a human being to live without consuming the flesh of other mammals. But I think that our compassion for animals like us demands that we at least investigate what we can do.

We should strive for an end to human cruelty first, and then animal cruelty. That is the process of us ceasing to be animals and beginning to be man.

Thanks very much for reading this incredibly overlong post.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 12:43 AM   #9
Ron Murphy
Departed Ron Murphy is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 103
doug
If you want to eat a vegetarian diet go do it. You won't get any support from all the meat eaters on this board, with there love afair for high amounts of animal products in there diet.
I say you can be perfectly healthy eating a diet based on fruits, veggies,nuts and seeds and beans. I am not talking about a vegetarian diet based on cooked starches, or one the includes dairy.

http://www.diseaseproof.com/ for some good info on the healthy plant based diet I am talking about.
one of the links posted above on vegetarism is from barry groves anti vegetarian web site, do a search on diseaseproof.com for some debates between barry groves and dr fuhrman
you don't have to be a total vegetarian but the more animal products ones adds to there diet the greater chance of having health problems in later years. That quote isn't going to over to big on this board. Sorry everbody, but it could very well be true.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2006, 04:52 AM   #10
Larry Lindenman
Affiliate Larry Lindenman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicago  Illinois
Posts: 2,769
Ron, please...Dr. G. take him out! Doug, eat meat that was raised and killed ethically (free range kosher comes to mind). We don't eat humans, kind of like other animals don't eat their dead...carnivores really don't have ethical problems dragging down prey, but won't kill each other when hungry. Eating a human sort of implies murder as a precursor, murder is morally wrong. I envision few scenarios where you would be in a position to eat already dead people (let's say your plane crashes in the Andies). If your in a warm environment the body is going to decompose rather rapidly and there are plenty of alternate food sources. But Doug, if you and I crash in the snow and your dead...I got to keep my protein intake up, so sorry, your dinner!
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have Paleo Diet for Athletes; Need Paleo Diet Also? Brad Davis Nutrition 3 07-22-2007 09:22 PM
What the Paleo Diet has done for me James Lewis Nutrition 24 03-15-2007 03:41 PM
Against the Paleo Diet? Travis Mulroy Nutrition 2 06-15-2005 05:06 AM
Paleo-zone diet = anti-rhabdo-diet? Seth Drown Nutrition 3 04-05-2005 11:03 AM
Paleo Diet.... Jay Edvardz Nutrition 4 12-15-2003 11:54 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.