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Old 09-15-2003, 11:53 AM   #1
Jay Edvardz
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I am new here and need a little bit of advice everyone. I am currently 18 - 5'7 - 146 - and roughly 10-12 percent bodyfat. I want to get down to around 6-7 percent bodyfat. I would like to follow a Paleo style regimen as I believe it would not only allow me to reach my goals but also keep me extremely healthy. I need some advice pertaining to the Paleo regimen. Some followers say you need to eat nearly all meat, others fish, some say high fat, others say moderate, etc. I just really need some advice to help me get to where I want to be. Furthermore, I have seen a lot of people have quite a bit of success following a Paleo regimen without counting calories. Is calorie counting going to need to become part of my repertoire in order to make this work? I am extremely motivated and dedicated and will have no problem sticking to the program. I am currently following a modified anabolic diet where I go low carb/cal for three days followed by one day of high carb/cal. It is working "ok" but I feel like total crap mentally and physically after the carb up (although during the high fat low carb portion of the diet I feel fabulous - albeit a tad bit weak due to caloric restriction. On the high fat days I consume around 1800 calories per day and on the high cal days I just eat whatever the hell I want). I feel the best when eating in a paleolithic style and just need a little bit of help :-). Any advice, suggestions, thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Lastly, my training regimen as of right now may also be of assistance: monday - upper body max 45 mins, tuesday - HIIT cardio, wednesday, lower body 45 min max, thursday - HIIT cardio, lather rinse repeat ;)
If you want to get a hold of my via e-mail: humilispuer@aol.com
(I am currently in the process of reading The Paleo Diet by Loren Cordain and the Paleolithic Prescription. I have already read Neanderthin, and Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A price - not to mention a host of other books pertaining to nutrition.)
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Old 09-15-2003, 01:31 PM   #2
Frank C Ollis
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Jay,
I am pretty sure Coach is going to jump all over this one, but I will chime in. I am throwing in a quote from the man, "Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat." If you eat consistently healthy, increase your work load, it will happen. By the way, as a fighter, I do not support extremely low body fat levels. They do not offer enough protection to your body.
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:36 PM   #3
Jay Edvardz
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Frank - thanks for the advice. Also; I want to give everyone a bit of an idea of where I am coming from with all of this. Basically my problem is in finding an amount of food that will facilitate fat loss without going too low. I was thin most of my life and then around 15 I got into a really nasty @$$ relationship. A year and a half later things finally ended and thus I decided to look in the mirror. I went "DAMN!" I had went from around 134 to around 195! Between constant stress (I know that sounds funny coming from someone my age) eating all day and absolutely no exercise I really packed on the weight. I decided that I needed to get into shape. I started watching what I ate and exercising like a mad man. All was going well and then I met another girl (LMAO) basically she liked my body but I did not. I dieted a little more then toyed around with a cycle of 1-ad, 4-ad, I got pretty shredded and gained good size (at 17 I had nearly 16 inch arms). I guess I started to fear gaining weight just like the last relationship - as such I started to diet down like crazy. I ended up eating only around 1000-1200 calories for months on end. By the end of things I was 110 pounds, could not walk up my driveway, could not even get hard, and my nails and hair had stopped growing all together. Scary as hell. I then decided I needed to gain muscle. LMAO. Of course since I was anorexic I feared gaining fat like there was no tomorrow (I eventually got over the fear - I thank God my girlfriend stayed with my through all of this; She is great!). I toyed around with all sorts of diets - Warrior Diet, NHE, Anabolic, Etc. I got up to around 158 and decided I had put too much fat on for the time being. That brings us to the present. As of now on days 1-3 I eat roughly 1800 calories, nearly no carbs and over 1 g of protein per pound of bodyweight. On day four I up the carbs and calories and eat pretty much whatever I like (not that I want to stay on this plan - but what do you think about this setup?). The plan seems to be working fairly well - although I cannot stand how I feel mentally and physically after a carb up. I am trying to find a plan that will allow me to reach my goals, lower bodyfat, maintain excellent health, without bring to surface my obsessive compulsive tendencies. Well, sorry for the long post, just figured in order to understand where I was coming from you needed to know a few things. Any help would be greatly appreciated and welcomed!
Here are my stats once again BTW:
18 - Male - 5'7 - 146 - 10-12 percent bodyfat.
Goal: Overall great health - 6-7 percent bodyfat.
Future: Gain more mass
now you have my life story and then some :D
-Humils
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:17 AM   #4
Jay Edvardz
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Still no responses - unfortunate. I was hoping that either Rob and or Coach would have something to say in regard to my situation.

-Humilis
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Old 09-16-2003, 09:55 AM   #5
Robert Wolf
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Jay-

Apologies for the late response! It may be frustrating but franks response is THE key to world class nutrition in...what, less than 40 words!? One can, and I often do take the nutrition discussion to what I think most would consider a high level. If one is eating as prescribed by the quote from Coach you have achieved 90% of the results possible via diet. If one adopts a zone type plan or a cyclic low carb plan with these paleo foods you have tweaked another 5-7% out of the possible options. The remaining 3-5% require SOOOOOO much effort for such little return....I enjoy conjecturing about it and always offer it out to folks but like all things the basics really it.

Bottom line is this: If you train Crossfit and eat a generally paleo type diet you will be lean, strong and fit. If you want to add significant muscle mass you will likely need to eat 6 or more small meals per day.
Keep us posted

Additionally- I also have felt pretty bad after carb load days ala NHE(natural hormaonal enhancement). My solution? Decreasing the amount of carbs at these meals. My performance is still good but I do not have the foggy feeling afterwards.
Robb
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:05 AM   #6
Jay Edvardz
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Rob - your post in much appreciated! I do have a few more question for you, however. On your carb up days; what types of high carb foods do you consume? What caused you to go with the NHE type plan as far as carb ups? Like I said - the hardest part of all of this for me is finding a level of food that will support exercise without bodyfat (Do you count calories, Rob? As I said earlier - the only downside of counting calories for me is the tendency to revert back to an anorexic type frame of mind). I did have an interesting experience, however, awhile back on the anabolic diet. I decided that mon-fri I would eat nothing but read meat. I ended up eating nearly 3500 calories of read meat a day (at that time I was only 135) oddly enough, I did not gain one ounce of fat throughout the week, in fact my body composition was changing for the better as I was gaining some decent muscle. The thing that killed me was the carb up days on sat-sun, that seemed to be the time when I put fat on. I have connected with many individuals on other forums who seem to state the same thing. When they eat large quantities of pure animal flesh food - they just cannot seem to gain weight no matter how hard they try. The guy who runs danjohn.org seems to have a similar experience throughout the week when eating nothing but meat. Any thoughts on this? I have heard people speculate that when eating meat and only meat, there is no carbohydrate what-so-ever and therefore no insulin response. I know that protein does indeed trigger insulin response, but if the fat in the meat were to blunt this effect - could that possibly explain the phenomena I speak of? Can't wait to hear your thoughts on this one :-)
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:47 AM   #7
Robert Wolf
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I stick with seasonal fruit and yams/sweet potatos for the carb up. If I did not do so much training with capoeira i do not think I would ever bother to eat any dense carb source but I do notice my performance drop without them. The key for me has been to move away from trying to gorge on the carb load days. I just have an amount which feels ok and if I am feeling flat I will do this again the next day instead of waiting the prescribed 3-4 days. The guidelines these plans offer are useful as starting points but it is up to the individual to tinker with the specifics to make it work for you.

I do not count calories, however I did keep track of them for about a week and it was interesting to note that it fell right at the level Coach had recomended for a zone protocol which is exactly what loren cordain has determined to be optimum for health ( for me about 3700 kcals).

So again all of these approaches are going to the same place with what amounts to minor alterations.
Robb
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:39 PM   #8
Jay Edvardz
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Rob you stated: "which is exactly what loren cordain has determined to be optimum for health ( for me about 3700 kcals)." I recall you stating that you were around 167 and 5 percent bodyfat, correct? This would give you an LBM of around 159. 3700 divided by 159 bring us to roughly 23.27. Is this to say that Loren has determined a multiplier of LBM in the range of 23 to be the "prescription," for optimal health (coupled with a proper Paleo style diet, of course)?
That specific number puts me around 3000 calories. Interestingly enough - this is around the number of calories I was eating from meat during my experiments with the anabolic diet; I ended up gaining muscle and subsequently losing fat with this regimen. Also, keeping these numbers in mind - it would seem that my current regimen of a mere 1850 calories would be far too low. I suppose your multiplier could be higher because of your level of activity. However I tend to do anywhere from 20-45 mins of intense exercise (whether it be weightraining, HIIT, kettlebells, etc.) a day. Any input would be greatly appreciated Rob. Thanks a lot for all your help up to this point!

-Humilis
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:46 PM   #9
Kevin Roddy
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I don't know if I could manage 3000 calories on a paleo-type diet, much less the Anabolic Diet.. how anyone could follow through with that one, I can't imagine. I read about it on T-mag. Man, that's a lot of meat.
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:05 PM   #10
Jay Edvardz
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Some of the fatty cuts of meat have near 345 calories per 3 oz. So it is not that hard to get in the calories. It would equate out to around a pound a half of meat and a mere 2 oz of cheese. No biggie, at lease not for me. I mean, in all reality, if ate 6 meals a day, it would be equal to 4 oz of meat and 1/3 oz of cheese at each serving. :-)

-Humilis
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