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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 04-01-2011, 09:15 AM   #21
Matt Haxmeier
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Pearse Shields View Post
I can do triple clap push-ups. Hardest push-up variation was one clap behind the back to one clap behind the head.
Hardest variation is actually the one handed clap behind the back pushup.

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Old 04-01-2011, 09:47 AM   #22
Meghan Reid
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

Somewhere out there, Jamie Skibicki is applauding CJ's fuctional application of the butt snap.
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:10 AM   #23
Tom Fetter
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
[The Games-standard pushup is a related but different issue more concerned with judging and strength-testing in my humble opinion. This is not an attack on Tony Budding and crew, they're doing a fine job with limited resources.]
  1. What is more functional?
  2. What better prepares you for a life in the trenches of _________ profession/lifestyle?
  3. Why does CF teach kipping pullups and kipping just about everything else (situps?) but the vast majority of us (all of us?) hold up the static pushup as the gold standard of pushups?

For purposes of this discussion:
  • Worming - start on floor, raising the upper torso first, then the butt up to finish in the top "plank" position.
  • Kipping pushup - start on floor, kipp up with butt first, finish in "plank".
For more details on "games" pushups see Tony's excellent 2011 Reebok CF Games Open Wod #2 video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiluk9nhGXs WFS ....
You started the thread a day early, eh?
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:34 PM   #24
Doug Lantz
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

CJ Kim (post #5) "As a lawyer, I can say that crossfitting has noticeably improved my conditioning..."

Ah, CJ is a lawyer. Now I understand.

Last edited by Doug Lantz : 04-01-2011 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:55 PM   #25
Shane Jensen
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

Anyone other than me not even aware of the existence of a "kipping" push up before this thread?
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:26 PM   #26
Benjamin Nichols
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Shane Jensen View Post
Anyone other than me not even aware of the existence of a "kipping" push up before this thread?
Wait... So all those people I laughed at for not doing correct push-ups were actually doing the standard right? Dang, the joke's on me, I guess hahahah. But seriously, the push-up is probably the exercise that is most commonly misused in terms of range of motion. Why make it any worse?

I also agree about the whole "functionality of the kipping pull-up" thing. I've never had to kip to climb a tree fast. In fact, in most situations where I need to climb something, there is an object directly in line with my whole body that completely limits my rage of motion for a kip--like rock climbing, fence hopping, parkour. . .
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:31 PM   #27
Benjamin Nichols
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Charles Applin View Post
This topic has been discussed before, and I'm on the kipping side.

Personal opinion, but all movement standards should really just have a START and STOP position to define a good rep. What you do in between should be irrelevant for the most part.

Pull-up: START-arms extended, head under bar, STOP - chin clearly above bar (or chest touches bar).

Push-up: START - chest touching ground with palms in the air, STOP - arms locked out with body in a plank.

Deadlift: START - bar on ground, STOP - bar in hand, standing straight with shoulders back.

Box Jump: START - feet on ground, MID - feet on box, STOP - Feet on ground, hips must pass XX height during this move.

etc, etc, etc.

Basically, if guys can do step ups faster than jumping, then allow step ups. If guys can snake faster than rigid body, then allow snaking. Just define the work that needs to be done, and be very liberal when it comes to how people do the work. With that, you'll find the most efficient method rise to the top.

If it helps, look at the comments about the WOD 11.2 demo where some people are calling foul on her push-ups. If you look, you'll see her legs (thighs) are still in contact with the ground after the chest has left contact. If CFHQ hadn't released such strict standards, then it would not have mattered.
Ahh, so using your logic:
I can good morning the 155 lbs. off the ground way faster than I can deadlift it - should I do so?

I should squat however I can, even if my form degrades?

"Being liberal" with form does not allow people to find the most efficient way of doing the exercise; in fact, it probably just quickens their likelihood of doing it wrong.
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:04 AM   #28
Pearse Shields
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Charles Applin View Post
Personal opinion, but all movement standards should really just have a START and STOP position to define a good rep. What you do in between should be irrelevant for the most part.

Pull-up: START-arms extended, head under bar, STOP - chin clearly above bar (or chest touches bar).

Push-up: START - chest touching ground with palms in the air, STOP - arms locked out with body in a plank.

Deadlift: START - bar on ground, STOP - bar in hand, standing straight with shoulders back.

Box Jump: START - feet on ground, MID - feet on box, STOP - Feet on ground, hips must pass XX height during this move.

etc, etc, etc.
If this is true, then I can do an 8-foot box jump. It doesn't say anything about doing a wall-run to muscle-up to standing on the box and then coming down again (granted that this may be taking your words to extremes). If the start and finish position are the same, then a clean and jerk and a snatch and an overhead anyhow are all interchangeable, as is a push-press, a shoulder press, a push jerk and a split jerk.
There is a reason that push-ups are the way they are. Because they are effective at developing strength and endurance. There is a reason that kipping push-ups are not taught by many institutes. Why would you want to teach a kipping push-up compared to a push-up performed from the knees for deconditioned clients?
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:38 PM   #29
Pär Larsson
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

Triple-clap pushup video linked above - amazing.

If you're not kipping your air squats then in my humble opinion not working at full efficiency. See the arms going up and down in http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C..._AirSquats.mov WFS ...which essentially just reduces the amount of body mass that's moving vertically, thereby reducing weight load.

Whether you should kip situps or not is an open question. I generally do situps with the soles of my feet together, knees splayed, and come up while using the weight of my arms to swing me forward. Same kip with GHD situps. Same with GHD medicine ball throws where it's even more pronounced.

Question: do you choose an inefficient single- or two-joint static movement in order to build strength, or do you choose a more efficient three-joint dynamic movement to build that strength as well as all kinds of other stuff at the same time?

("More efficient" here meaning moving the same mass from the same starting point to the same end point in a manner that allows you to continue to do that movement for a greater period of time. I might have confused my definitions here, maybe it should be called "more enduring" or "less work using comparatively small muscle groups?")

If all you care about is developing strength, then maybe pure static movements will float your boat. To me, strength is just 1/10th of fitness. Then again, the culture in this country has for a long time been skewed toward "bigger muscles is better" and massive chests, so I can see where you're coming from.

I think most people have seen or done kipping pushups already - except it's always been called "snaking" or "worming" or "cheating."

I'm not quite ready to go the way of just determining a start and an end point for each exercise and just letting everyone do what they want in between - but that's primarily with regards to learning to lift heavy loads - i.e. it's great that you can snatch your way to full overhead extension with 135 lbs - but you really should work on that C & J too, for those times that you're too tired to snatch or the weight is too heavy.

For judging purposes, though, I'm all for simplifying the rules with thrusters/1RM overhead and such.

No this was not an April Fools. Sorry.

With regards to the real-world applications of kipping pushups I may well have overdone the arguments, and the people saying you'd be better off training strength for that might very well be right. If I have a bunch of weight on me or I'm tired and just need to go from prone to kneeling or standing then I'm unlikely to take both my knees off the ground in the process of getting a foot planted underneath me. My mistake.

As far as people who can't quite do a static pushup, I do teach going on their knees to start with, and give them the option to snake/worm/kip as much as they want, as long as they're having fun and being safe and doing challenging work.

Lastly - anyone else do kipping pushups and find the movement to be very similar to butterfly pullups?
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Old 04-05-2011, 07:44 AM   #30
Rene Forestier
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Re: Do you teach static or kipping pushups? Why?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Golf clap for CJ, this thread is some of his best work yet.
Nah, I'm still a fan of his earlier "Dali-inspired" phase.
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