CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Competitions
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Competitions Competitions, contests & challenges

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-04-2010, 04:38 PM   #51
Pär Larsson
Member Pär Larsson is offline
 
Pär Larsson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 178
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
There are lots of skills that might save your life some day. But there are only so many hours in a day.

If you want to learn martial skills, that's great. But do it because you enjoy it, not because you think they will ever save your life.

Katherine
Excellent point, and really cuts to the heart of the argument.

How many people will need martial skills one day, even though they don't expect it? A few. How easy is that to test at the Games? Not easy at all, and a huge part of the community would be iffy with turning CF towards MMA type stuff.

How many people will need swimming/water skills one day, even though they don't expect it? A few, but more than the unarmed martial skills, I'm guessing by what seems to kill people each year. How easy is that to test at the Games? Fairly simply - just rent or build an above-ground 5-ft deep pool and have people do a lap or two as part of a circuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_...d_by_Frequency WFS

The catch-all "Violence" clocks in at .98% of all deaths worldwide in 2002.
"Drowning" is at .67 - which seems to counter my argument, until you realize how much of that violence is from:
landmines
bombs
IEDs
guns
etc. etc.

I'm sure plenty of people would like to test gun-shooting skills at the Games, but that's a bit far out in the right field currently.

Again, I'm not arguing that individual CF boxes should start incorporating swimming - the logistics and the requirements are just too inconvenient. It should just be the coach of the box's affiliate team saying:

"Hey guys, we might see a water obstacle or short to medium distance swim at the Games - just make sure you guys are comfortable breaststroking through a 100-200m swim."

Then the top people at the gym know they just need to have the very most basic minimum amount of water skills. AND THAT'S IT. No need for swimming WODs. No need to get your brand new people into the pool that's halfway across town.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:02 PM   #52
Pär Larsson
Member Pär Larsson is offline
 
Pär Larsson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 178
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
"Avoiding lakes, pools, oceans...because you don't know how to swim is childish and stupid. Be an adult and learn a new skill."

Where do you draw the line? I don't know how to climb, so I don't go climbing on vacation. A lot of people don't ski, so they don't go on skiing vacations. I don't skate board or freestyle bike so I don't go to skate parks.
You already know how to climb if you can do a pullup, or get over a wall, or climb a rope. Technical climbing is a highly specialized effort involving very complicated and expensive gear. Tons of fun but not doable for the basic CF box or garage gym. Skating and surfing, skiing and riding a bike all take gear and specialized skills that are highly unlikely to save your life, none of which were practiced by the cavemen whose lifestyle has evolutionally determined our bodies' functionality.

What basic "fit for life" type skills do we not test at the Games that are:

* cheap and easy to learn
* takes no equipment
* could easily save your life or your friend's life one day
* has been practiced by humans for millions of years
* doesn't need huge adjustments on the part of your average box

My answer (let me know if you have more ideas):

A. Fighting
B. Throwing spears/rocks
C. Swimming
D. Long-distance running
E. Climbing

Any type of combat testing at the Games turns the community from a fitness/sport/inclusive training thing into a pseudo-MMA community. It would turn way too many people away, be hard to implement with people getting broken noses and concussions and an impossible matching challenge.

Throwing stuff is doable - should at least have a heavy medicine ball toss or similar.

Swimming - the cost is an above ground pool. A small water obstacle pool could be had for $2,000. The major issues would be making sure it didn't all of a sudden break during competition, and keeping the risk of injury to a minimum.

http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Ultra-Fr.../dp/B0013A0B0A WFS

Running - the 2009 Games were spot on in this regard imho. I don't see a huge benefit to the community in having anything over a 5K in the Games, though I guess it could be good to keep everyone guessing. Watch them throw in a hilly 10K sandbag carry next year.

Climbing - personally I thought this was well tested with just a high rope and a few walls. We don't need bigger stuff than that, though I suppose you could have some fun with a long high ladder that the athlete would have to climb underneath over deep enough water to make it safe. Or human pyramids to get a team over a wall.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:13 PM   #53
Pär Larsson
Member Pär Larsson is offline
 
Pär Larsson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 178
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Crawford View Post
Why is it necessary for CrossFit to tell you to swim - if you want to swim, go for it.
Do you claim to be fit for life?
Do you "not suck at life"?
Are you prepared for the unknown and the unknowable?
Are you 80% ready for damn near anything that life can throw at you?
Are you ready for the next Tsunami? If you say you don't need to be - so said 250,000ish people back in 2004. That didn't work out so well for them. Or the 6 kids (?) who died the other day, and the 20 adults that stood there and watched their kids die because they were too stupid to make sure that someone knew how to swim.

The average CF gym goer who shows up and has fun and enjoys a bit of HIIT 3-4 times per week doesn't need to get kicked into the pool. The "elite" person who wants to excel at GPP and be crowned "Fittest On Earth" needs to not end up standing by while watching his kids drown.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38559284/ns/us_news-life/ WFS

Quote:
"It's hard when you can't save your kids," said Maude Warner, whose 13-year-old daughter Takeitha and sons 14-year-old JaMarcus and 17-year-old JaTavious were among those who drowned.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:46 PM   #54
Rob St. Croix
Member Rob St. Croix is offline
 
Rob St. Croix's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Bern  NC
Posts: 143
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Knowing how to swim, and knowing how to save a drowning person are not the same thing. Drowning swimmers often drown the person attempting to rescue them as well. If you have any aspirations to have the skills to save a drowning swimmer, that is a skill that you need to seek special instruction for or else you to may be a victim.

The YMCA I think sometimes will offer lifeguard classes. The USMC requires Marines to demonstrate the ability to execute various techniques with live victims who fight back and resist and try to take you down as you are trying to save them and I'm telling you, its hard and I'm a strong swimmer.

As for WODs. When I was at the Green Belt Instructor class at MCRD San Deigo a few years ago, we did pool workouts that then required us to get out go outside and low crawl 100M in the sand and do a bunch of other crazy stuff. I looked like a man sized sugar cookie at the end of it.
__________________
"Human beings are at their best when they are helping others be at theirs." "The beating will continue until your PR improves."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 05:50 PM   #55
Justin Z. Smith
Member Justin Z. Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alexandria  VA
Posts: 390
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
How many people do you know who've been in fights? How many have been in car accidents?

Katherine
Arguing for martial arts isn't arguing against learning driving skills or against learning anything else. By all means learn all that you can, especially things like self defense and driving skills.

I personally know a few on each but a better question is how many people do you know who could come to a horrible conclusion if they were in violence. The world's fittest, for example, should not get his/her butt handed to them in a fight. If they do, they aren't the world's fittest by definition. No matter their Fran time.

Plus, as you know, martial arts can include learning to fall and take/absorb strikes, not just "fighting".

Justin
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:20 PM   #56
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
Do you claim to be fit for life?
Do you "not suck at life"?
Are you prepared for the unknown and the unknowable?
Are you 80% ready for damn near anything that life can throw at you?
Are you ready for the next Tsunami? If you say you don't need to be - so said 250,000ish people back in 2004. That didn't work out so well for them.
Okay, now we're getting ridiculous. I'd bet that a substantial number of those people DID know how to swim. They lived near and earned their living from the water after all. But surviving a tsunami wave takes much more than the basic swimming skills that you're proposing as a Games test. Good swimmers drown every day, and bad current conditions are a big part of the reason why.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:29 PM   #57
Todd Crawford
Member Todd Crawford is offline
 
Todd Crawford's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Charleston  SC
Posts: 609
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
Do you claim to be fit for life?
Do you "not suck at life"?
Are you prepared for the unknown and the unknowable?
Are you 80% ready for damn near anything that life can throw at you?
Are you ready for the next Tsunami? If you say you don't need to be - so said 250,000ish people back in 2004. That didn't work out so well for them. Or the 6 kids (?) who died the other day, and the 20 adults that stood there and watched their kids die because they were too stupid to make sure that someone knew how to swim.

The average CF gym goer who shows up and has fun and enjoys a bit of HIIT 3-4 times per week doesn't need to get kicked into the pool. The "elite" person who wants to excel at GPP and be crowned "Fittest On Earth" needs to not end up standing by while watching his kids drown.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38559284/ns/us_news-life/ WFS
Sure - but my point is, I don't need swimming to be mandated by CrossFit to make it part of my life. I also don't need CrossFit to be my measure of fitness. I use CrossFit because it helps me excel in things that I really think are important. Where it lacks, I am man enough to substitute to meet me needs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:30 PM   #58
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Z. Smith View Post
Arguing for martial arts isn't arguing against learning driving skills or against learning anything else. By all means learn all that you can, especially things like self defense and driving skills.

I personally know a few on each but a better question is how many people do you know who could come to a horrible conclusion if they were in violence. The world's fittest, for example, should not get his/her butt handed to them in a fight. If they do, they aren't the world's fittest by definition. No matter their Fran time.

Plus, as you know, martial arts can include learning to fall and take/absorb strikes, not just "fighting".

Justin
I think we're going around in circles on this.... My point is that life is short, and few people will be able to devote the time to learn all the skills they might want/need.

Being a sufficiently skilled fighter to "not get your butt handed to you" takes quite a lot of specialized training in its own right. And unless you get into fights -- which most sane people avoid -- it's nearly impossible to know if you're there. Not at all measurable. Not really testable in the Crossfit context.

And yes, knowing how to fall is probably the most important skill aikido has taught me. We teach it to beginners in 3-6 months. Fighting skills take a little longer...

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:31 PM   #59
Jeff Binek
Affiliate Jeff Binek is offline
 
Jeff Binek's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dublin  OH
Posts: 297
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
Do you claim to be fit for life?
Do you "not suck at life"?
Are you prepared for the unknown and the unknowable?
Are you 80% ready for damn near anything that life can throw at you?
Are you ready for the next Tsunami? If you say you don't need to be - so said 250,000ish people back in 2004. That didn't work out so well for them. Or the 6 kids (?) who died the other day, and the 20 adults that stood there and watched their kids die because they were too stupid to make sure that someone knew how to swim.

The average CF gym goer who shows up and has fun and enjoys a bit of HIIT 3-4 times per week doesn't need to get kicked into the pool. The "elite" person who wants to excel at GPP and be crowned "Fittest On Earth" needs to not end up standing by while watching his kids drown.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38559284/ns/us_news-life/ WFS
Drama Queen
__________________
My Numbers: 6'2" 225lbs: DL 565, BS 455, FS 400, Clean 330, Jerk 325, C&J 325, Snatch 250, Fran: 2:27, Helen: 6:43
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 06:44 PM   #60
Rob St. Croix
Member Rob St. Croix is offline
 
Rob St. Croix's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Bern  NC
Posts: 143
Re: We need a water/swim obstacle in a CF competition. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
And yes, knowing how to fall is probably the most important skill aikido has taught me. We teach it to beginners in 3-6 months. Fighting skills take a little longer...

Katherine
I was told by one of my Marines who is/was a Aiki-jūjutsu student/instructor that if you want to learn how to fall, watch accomplished high level gymnasts. They have been falling really hard from really high things all their lives and they know how to do it well and get right back up.

Thinking about that guy makes me sore. He threw me like a ragdoll all over Camp Fox, Kuwait as he would give instruction at night under some engineering lights we had.
__________________
"Human beings are at their best when they are helping others be at theirs." "The beating will continue until your PR improves."
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
obstacle course? Jason Wallis Equipment 21 07-16-2010 12:11 AM
Preparing for 1km Open Water Swim Mitchell Brown Competitions 5 12-07-2009 07:22 AM
3 mile obstacle course Victor Maalouf Fitness 2 09-24-2009 05:13 AM
Obstacle Course Workout Bryan Edge Community 4 04-09-2007 03:06 PM
'What is fit?' Obstacle course William Winger Fitness 0 07-27-2006 02:53 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.