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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 04-12-2009, 05:11 AM   #1
Steven Webster
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My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

For a very long time I have not been able to keep the bar on my leg. I would get my knees out of the way during the first pull but continue to extend them and end up Romanian deadlifting the bar up just using my hams hips and back.

I did some research and came upon a thread where one person explained that you have to keep the weight on your leg somewhat, that if you don't, you end up using 'half your machine' to pull the weight.

So, I tried this out and instead of continuing to extend my leg, I would get my knees out of the way just enough to get the bar past them. Then I'd keep some of the weight on my leg and straighten up. The result was that the bar would stay on my leg right the way up. The knees and hips were coming forward a lot more.

I hear you shouldn't have to teach the double knee bend but I don't have a coach and this seemed to work for me. I think now that the knees don't actually re-bend, they reach optimum angle during the first pull off the floor, then move forward with the hips. I'm confident in the difference and feel it is an important distinction.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:22 AM   #2
Robert Callahan
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

I recommend getting Greg Everett's book on Olympic Weightlifting. It has a much more thorough and detailed explanation than I could ever give. Essentially though you should not have to force the double knee bend, it is a product of putting yourself into the correct positions. There are two likely things happening. Either a) you were double knee bending before and did not feel it or b) you were not double knee bending for some odd reason and now are by forcing it. I would do 2 things. First get someone to record your lifts with something that you can then review frame by frame. You should not feel the double knee bend, it just happens and is probably happening when you think it is not. Second if you are not double knee bending or having to force it, it means you are not putting yourself in the correct positions. Get the above mentioned book, or a good coach that can help you fix that
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:25 AM   #3
Steven Webster
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

I ordered Greggs book last month; the ship is going to take a long time to get here

Robert, I'm sure I was RDLing the weight up. As far as forcing goes, I guess I'm forcing myself to not RDL the weight up. I notice the knees and hips come forward more or differently because of my new set-up. It happens more now I've changed my form. I guess I could say it's a consequence of changing form not a cause of it, does that make sense?

Basically I bring my knees back just enough for the bar to pass and keep some tension on the quads. Now the bar stays on the leg; the hips and knees come forward more than they did. Does that sound about right to you?

Did you know that a lot of the pro's lift off on their toes as the knees and hips come forward before they have even reached full extension? I was just straightening up and jumping last...
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:02 PM   #4
Robert Callahan
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

hmmm, well the only way you could be RDLing a clean is if you let your hips shoot up without the bar moving much. In this case keeping the chest up would be the cue I would use.

I am a much more visual person though and sometimes have trouble understanding written descriptions... You should post some video as that would be much more easy to analyze, at least for me!
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:44 PM   #5
Steven Webster
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

Check the vid on page two of this thread from the CrossFit forums. Gregg speaks about the role of the quad straightening the knee as the lifter is driving through the heels.

http://www.board.CrossFit.com/showthread.php?t=39875&page=2

Check the attachment and it's clear to see both the 'knee bend' and also watch the lifters come off their heels before they have fully extended the knee joint!?
Attached Files
File Type: email double knee bend.ppt (437.5 KB, 520 views)
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:28 PM   #6
Robert Callahan
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

Don't worry I am familiar with that thread, I started it

As for that sequence of lifters going on their toes, it sort of looks to me like both those guys are not finishing their second pull. They may be very strong and able to get away with it, but I would not think that it is an ideal thing to strive for....

Again I think video of YOU doing the lifts would be most beneficial because then we could see what you are doing.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:18 PM   #7
Brian Degenaro
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

Just something to note about that powerpoint. Even though these lifters happen to be some of the best lifters, they are definitely not the most technically proficient either. For example, Dimas is ridiculously powerful and strong which is why he's able to heave such weights. However, he has the problem of throwing his head back and hips forward with each lift, causing this excessive push off the toes.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:48 PM   #8
Cody Wilkes
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Webster View Post
I hear you shouldn't have to teach the double knee bend but I don't have a coach and this seemed to work for me. I think now that the knees don't actually re-bend, they reach optimum angle during the first pull off the floor, then move forward with the hips. I'm confident in the difference and feel it is an important distinction.
I agree, The double knee bend is something I believe can be taught. I have taught it and seen others teach it. Sounds like you taught yourself, which is good. I would also say it is more of shift and repositioning of the hips and knees also.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #9
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

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Originally Posted by Steven Webster View Post
I think now that the knees don't actually re-bend, they reach optimum angle during the first pull off the floor, then move forward with the hips. I'm confident in the difference and feel it is an important distinction.
Yes. And they should not fully extend before the athlete begins his descent under the bar. You're just trying to get the bar to float for a moment.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:43 AM   #10
Steven Webster
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Re: My revelation about the squat clean and 'double knee bend'

I suppose I should have made it more clear the difference between keeping the bar on the leg and keeping the weight on the leg. Keeping the weight on the leg by not extending the knee fully means I keep the bar closer.
The first post doesn't make much sense.

It's a bit of a pain learning on my own to be honest. When I improve a bit more I'll post a vid. Hopefully I'll get some positive feedback from that for a morale boost.
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