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Old 09-17-2008, 04:21 AM   #91
David Wood
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Gabriel, I *really* don't think you believe what you posted (i.e., I'm pretty sure you intended it as sarcasm).

The problem is, sarcasm isn't always understood in text communication, where we don't have the benefit of tone, inflection, visual effects, etc. Even with the emoticons, it can be tricky to pull off.

I've had your post reported three times overnight by folks who took it seriously.

As an intentional comment (slur), it would get you banned here. That's not happening today, since I'm working from the assumption that that was not what you meant. But please make sure you indicate sarcasm clearly, or better not, just don't try . . . especially on the subject matter you did.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:21 PM   #92
Matthew Eucalitto
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

The problem I'm having with the whole "thats what I do in the gym" argument is that if you are doing the WODs, then you are doing the same thing as someone else who does the WODs.. so yes, they do do what you do.

It would be accurate to say, they dont do it as well.. fine. But they do do the same thing.

And if we want to talk about elite, then where is it defined, what determines elite. Which events? every one? I'm very good as some, okay at others, and crappy at a few. If you threw in the swimming workouts I'd probably beat 99% of the people on this board...but thats not why I started doing this only a little while ago.

and honestly, there may be people out there better than those in the CF Games. Not that I can compete or come close to those who do, but..I personally have no desire to compete and probably never will, even if I get to that "elite" level...but designating people as such, would definitely be a put-off to many of us.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:31 PM   #93
Gabriel desGarennes
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wood View Post
Gabriel, I *really* don't think you believe what you posted (i.e., I'm pretty sure you intended it as sarcasm).

The problem is, sarcasm isn't always understood in text communication, where we don't have the benefit of tone, inflection, visual effects, etc. Even with the emoticons, it can be tricky to pull off.

I've had your post reported three times overnight by folks who took it seriously.

As an intentional comment (slur), it would get you banned here. That's not happening today, since I'm working from the assumption that that was not what you meant. But please make sure you indicate sarcasm clearly, or better not, just don't try . . . especially on the subject matter you did.
It was most definitely sarcasm.

Didn't i put the ... after it?

Well sorry if anyone was offended by that. It is indeed hard to show when you are blatantly trying to be sarcastic.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:14 AM   #94
Coach
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

George,

There was a pro NFL lineman at the games and several notable pro T&F athtletes who trained towards the games and decided not to come - even when offered to have their expenses paid.

Irv Ray, the elite US Decathlon coach said that the winner of the CrossFit games deserves to be called fittest man/woman on earth and that no decathlete past or presence has/had the mental toughness to succeed at CrossFit. He very deliberately included past and present competitors.

George, you have it wrong.

Moderators, when the knee-jerk response to controversy, discussion, and heated debate become Pukie's Bucket we're very close to shutting down the message board. I'm finding it increasingly hard to draw the brightest from our community over here and heavy handed moderation is always given as an issue. It's kept me away.

There are two lawsuits involving CrossFit. In one we've been asked to work with the plaintiffs lawyers as experts. Our Rhabdo awareness pieces are listed among the expert witness documents for the case. This is the one that Boyle and friends are referring to. Mike Boyle's insinuation that this is a case against CrossFit is unethical, incorrect, uneducated, and irresponsible. It's also typical of Mr. Boyle. (As an aside, I also suspect that the case is fraudulent and entirely inspired by the NY Times article.)

The second case involved a kid who hurt his knees doing back flips off of a gym wall in a Marin County owned gymnastics super-gym. We were included in that suit for reasons that the plaintiffs atty. says were due entirely to his misunderstanding of CrossFit. The plaintiffs atty. has removed CrossFit Inc. from the suit - before we filed our motion for summary dismissal.

CrossFit has never been sued. Our insurance brokers deal exclusively with health clubs and gyms. They are the largest writers of sport and exercise liability policies in the world. They claim we have an unmatched record of revenue (and reach) to litigation.

Mike Boyle is happy in a world where he makes his 50K/yr helping a few hundred people each year become a bit fitter. His work is not taken seriously at professional sporting levels and his reach with the general public is very, very limited. He's sees the CrossFit juggernaut wherever he goes and he can't stand it. We've spoken with the hockey players who claims he gave them their worst season ever, we've met the Army guys who were told they needed to do push-ups from their knees. (You can find reference to both of these instances from the comments on the first Boyle/CrossFit WOD post)
My issues with Mike Boyle that aren't about ethics, jealousy, competency, and professionalism are about risk analysis - cost benefit analysis.

Is fitness important enough to accept some risk in teaching and training people? Is CrossFit as dangerous as ANY sport? Does Boyle et al recommend that no lifelong trained athletes engage in sport?

Boyle doesn't have the educational, professional, or intellectual background to support his charges. I've given him a forum to do so and his response was like that of a drunken nine year old. We even reprinted our exchange regarding his attacks on CrossFit at the SOMA conference and his response to me in a CrossFit Journal article. Were he of average intelligence he'd have left well enough alone after that. Read the CFJ article, it's proof enough that the man doesn't have the capacity for serious thought and discussion. It may be hard for some of you to see that from a textual frame of reference. So....we're going to give you a radio show. There I, Robb Wolf, Lon Kilgore, Mark Rippetoe, and Tom Delong, are going to respond to Boyle, Cook, and Cosgrove point by silly point.

Last edited by Coach : 09-26-2008 at 03:20 AM. Reason: ommission
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:37 AM   #95
Camille Lore
 
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Wow. Coach- nice to see you on here, in addition to your postings on the main page.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:39 AM   #96
Tom Brose
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

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Originally Posted by Coach View Post
He's sees the CrossFit juggernaut wherever he goes and he can't stand it.
Here is the heart of most of the criticism of CrossFit. We have by far surpassed any other training movement/style/organization, and its been done in an organic fashion. While I am a big believer in looking for excellence outside of our community and not being overly self aggrandizing, there is just nothing else like CrossFit going on at a comparable scale. People who felt special, hardcore, or underground because they deadlift, kettlebell or do burpees now see it going mainstream and are loosing their precious identity. Some in the CrossFit community feel the same, hence the occasional "I've been doing CF for 8 months and theres too many newbies" posts.

Heres the thing: good training isn't a secret anymore. I loved it when CrossFit was unheard of, it gave me (not being a particularly good athlete, but hard trainer) a definite advantage As I started training in BJJ, my S&C base from CrossFit allowed me to hang in there with much better fighters. While they could school me on the mats, I was always able to keep up while othrs sprawls slowed and grip broke down (not to mention concentration and will). The rugby players I train make huge strides in game conditioning, and it pays off in their selection.

While I disagree with Boyles assessment of CF wholeheartedly, I think our community needs to worry less about defending every critique (loyalty is a virtue, but I think Coach can handle himself pretty well, as evidenced above) and more about proving them wrong. This means not approaching training in a haphazard manner, and striving for virtuosity. Don't take Coaches risk-benefit idea to mean there is no need for a developed progressive approach to CrossFit. I've been to a number of affiliates, and seen dozens of trainers in action. There is a wide discrepancy in skill (that is natural), but I worry that some feel they have it all down already.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:27 AM   #97
Randy Tarasevich
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

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Originally Posted by Sarah Scholl View Post
I support crossfit 100%! I just think it should be made into more of a sport...with tryouts, and teams!
the teams could be coached by affiliate owners..coaches..and train together, compete in competitions. They could become professional athletes in crossfit..get sponsored...HOW AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

I mean...football isnt "mechanically correct" ...but it seperates the athletes from the regulars and allows the athletes to do the work that they are capable of!
Worst idea ever.....
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:11 AM   #98
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Tom,

I didn't say that the US will beat everyone at every sport, what I was saying was that the olympics was not our best athletes versus their best athletes. The reason for this is that our best athletes can make alot more money playing sports that aren't in the olympics and hence don't compete in the olympics. Most football players have damn near the perfect build and genetics for O-lifting (high fast twitch, high verticals, stocky builds).

The biggest problem america has in the olympics is participation, not lack of talent.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:25 AM   #99
Steven Quadros
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Mike Boyle is happy in a world where he makes his 50K/yr helping a few hundred people each year become a bit fitter. His work is not taken seriously at professional sporting levels and his reach with the general public is very, very limited. He's sees the CrossFit juggernaut wherever he goes and he can't stand it. We've spoken with the hockey players who claims he gave them their worst season ever, we've met the Army guys who were told they needed to do push-ups from their knees. (You can find reference to both of these instances from the comments on the first Boyle/CrossFit WOD post)
My issues with Mike Boyle that aren't about ethics, jealousy, competency, and professionalism are about risk analysis - cost benefit analysis.

Boyle doesn't have the educational, professional, or intellectual background to support his charges. I've given him a forum to do so and his response was like that of a drunken nine year old. We even reprinted our exchange regarding his attacks on CrossFit at the SOMA conference and his response to me in a CrossFit Journal article. Were he of average intelligence he'd have left well enough alone after that. Read the CFJ article, it's proof enough that the man doesn't have the capacity for serious thought and discussion. It may be hard for some of you to see that from a textual frame of reference. So....we're going to give you a radio show. There I, Robb Wolf, Lon Kilgore, Mark Rippetoe, and Tom Delong, are going to respond to Boyle, Cook, and Cosgrove point by silly point.
Pretty classless response.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:50 AM   #100
Sean Dunston
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Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

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Originally Posted by Steven Quadros View Post
Pretty classless response.
I'm not so sure it is classless, Mr. Quadros.
Did you listen to the podcast?
Have you read up on Boyle? Google him - there's plenty out there.
Did you read the Journal Article?
Maybe you have done all of that already.
You are entitled to your opinion, as we all are.
Mine differs from yours.
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