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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-10-2008, 02:58 PM   #11
Gavin Harrison
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Kevin McMahon View Post
I respect the fact that you are trying to discuss things that many CFers say are "not as good as CF" or "fail to provide the same fitness as CF".
But do realize, for the specific goal that crosffitters have,(being in working physical condition for both everyday situations, and ready to tackle any challenge) nothing you can find will give the same results.

Will someone who has never touched a weight or done a jumping jack see benefit form the programs that you suggest, of course they will. Will those same routines help a crossfitter go above and beyond what Cf has already provided, almost assuredly no.

None of what you mentioned gets you body in tune with itself. None of promotes more body awareness or coordination. How often do i need to move immoveable objects, static resistence. Serisously, maybe everything that you mentioned will help you get that "pretty boy" body, or that you will look better than before. But none of it in any way shape or form will outperform CF in what CF's goal is.
You really know nothing of strength training of any form do you? Crossfit's great for GPP and balanced fitness, but what do you think people like weightlifters, powerlifters or gymnasts do? Well...

1RM training is very common in all strength sports.

Static holds are excessively common in gymnastics training.

Rack pulls or halting deadlifts are common in powerlifting and strength training in general, as are N-board presses, floor presses, box squats, etc.

I still have no idea what high intensity reps are...

Anyway, I also have no idea why you'd say most of these things have no use outside of "pretty boys", which I'm sure you wouldn't accuse SHW powerlifters of being, and obviously isn't the goal of performing a planche, front lever or iron cross. These techniques surely need to be mixed with other things, like full ROM lifts, dynamic movements, etc, but that does not mean that they are worthless for practical training.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:03 PM   #12
Kevin McMahon
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
You really know nothing of strength training of any form do you? Crossfit's great for GPP and balanced fitness, but what do you think people like weightlifters, powerlifters or gymnasts do? Well...

1RM training is very common in all strength sports.

Static holds are excessively common in gymnastics training.

Rack pulls or halting deadlifts are common in powerlifting and strength training in general, as are N-board presses, floor presses, box squats, etc.

I still have no idea what high intensity reps are...

Anyway, I also have no idea why you'd say most of these things have no use outside of "pretty boys", which I'm sure you wouldn't accuse SHW powerlifters of being, and obviously isn't the goal of performing a planche, front lever or iron cross. These techniques surely need to be mixed with other things, like full ROM lifts, dynamic movements, etc, but that does not mean that they are worthless for practical training.
You apparently did not comprehend what i was getting at. If you did not notice, i specified several times that the said techniques are not beneficial to what CROSSFIT is trying to do. The worst thing about his post is the broad general term of success. For some success could be walking to the door today, or completing one pull-up, or any number of things. My point specifically is in what most crossfitters are in pursuit of the techniques and programs mentioned by the OP are not what a CFer needs to be doing.

Yes body builders need to do these things. Yes for powerlifting some of these techniques may help. But many of these things fall into the same category of what a standard Globo trainer is going to tell you to do because they read it in last months Muscle and Fitness.

Also the OP was talking about these routines as stand alone routines. I am sorry that i didnt spell everything out from his first word to last, buts that is why you should read the whole thread before trying to flame me. I do understand that many of these techniques have their use in other realms of fitness. And yes they may work to a point, but for the goal of what CROSSFIT is getting at, they have little or no point being a part of what we do.

I say pretty boys because there are all sorts of gimmicks and programs out there that have worked for people who look good but still are not going to be able to do what we do. Sorry if i wasnt clear enough the first time.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:47 PM   #13
David Meverden
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Friendly reminder to keep things civil, guys.

And remember the easiest way to avoid petty squabbles: Find the things you AGREE with in the post first and acknowledge those things, then DISCUSS where you disagree (if you think there is NOTHING that you can relate to at all then you need to read it again without jumping to conclusions about what their point is). And if you aren't clear why someone is saying something please just ask them about it.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:56 PM   #14
Zeeshan Parvez
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

I did not start this discussion to cause a fight, and niether was I comparing programs to CF's program. People seem to have this mis conception that every time I talk about a routine or other programs, I am doing so to downgrade CF's program. That is not the case. I believe this section discusses theory and practice. If those theories are limited to CF's program then I guess I shouldn't be discussing other programs. And if *theory* refers to a general discussion about programs, then there is no need to get so touchy!
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:05 PM   #15
Shane Rapp
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Zeeshan Parvez View Post
I did not start this discussion to cause a fight, and niether was I comparing programs to CF's program. People seem to have this mis conception that every time I talk about a routine or other programs, I am doing so to downgrade CF's program. That is not the case. I believe this section discusses theory and practice. If those theories are limited to CF's program then I guess I shouldn't be discussing other programs. And if *theory* refers to a general discussion about programs, then there is no need to get so touchy!
Can't speak for the others but I didn't take your comments as such. Let's all have a drink.
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Old 08-10-2008, 06:34 PM   #16
Kevin McMahon
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Zeeshan Parvez View Post
I did not start this discussion to cause a fight, and niether was I comparing programs to CF's program. People seem to have this mis conception that every time I talk about a routine or other programs, I am doing so to downgrade CF's program. That is not the case. I believe this section discusses theory and practice. If those theories are limited to CF's program then I guess I shouldn't be discussing other programs. And if *theory* refers to a general discussion about programs, then there is no need to get so touchy!
Sorry. I was looking at them from a CF stand point. Like i said i agree that to a point that anything can prove to increaseyour capacity for work whatever the exercise is. And as also stated the routines that you suggest to do believe wouldbe beneficial as supplements to a traditional bodybuilding/weightlifiting type routine. This is because the exercises that you brough up are meant to confuse the muscles and powerlifters and bodybuilders use those techniques to break through plateaus.

For the most part crossfit's programming does that for you so there is little to no need to supplement with such exercises. And again im sorry if i came out with the crossfit attitude, but i do truly believe in it and believe that most of the gym routines that people do "studies" on, only work to a point, and generally build the pretty muscles, and do not have anywhere near the benefit that crossfit does. But of course that is my opinion
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:21 PM   #17
Derek Franks
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Friendly reminder to keep things civil, guys.

And remember the easiest way to avoid petty squabbles: Find the things you AGREE with in the post first and acknowledge those things, then DISCUSS where you disagree (if you think there is NOTHING that you can relate to at all then you need to read it again without jumping to conclusions about what their point is). And if you aren't clear why someone is saying something please just ask them about it.
Thanks Mom.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #18
Gavin Harrison
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Kevin McMahon View Post
Sorry. I was looking at them from a CF stand point. Like i said i agree that to a point that anything can prove to increaseyour capacity for work whatever the exercise is. And as also stated the routines that you suggest to do believe wouldbe beneficial as supplements to a traditional bodybuilding/weightlifiting type routine. This is because the exercises that you brough up are meant to confuse the muscles and powerlifters and bodybuilders use those techniques to break through plateaus.

For the most part crossfit's programming does that for you so there is little to no need to supplement with such exercises. And again im sorry if i came out with the crossfit attitude, but i do truly believe in it and believe that most of the gym routines that people do "studies" on, only work to a point, and generally build the pretty muscles, and do not have anywhere near the benefit that crossfit does. But of course that is my opinion
I agree with you and disagree with you. Crossfit is really good at what it does, broad, general, inclusive fitness. However, you'll need something else in order to compete at a high level in almost any sport. Some of these techniques are central to various sports, and disregarding them as for "pretty boys" when they certainly aren't is where we don't see eye to eye... crossfit even advocates some of these things, for instance "skill work" on various gymnastic or strength moves including static holds (planches, levers, etc), or even incorporate them into the main programming, such as L-sits.

There was a thread before where someone said he'd trained for competitive weightlifting, sprinting, low level gymnastics and crossfit did not help him at all improve his performance in these sports, aside from raising his GPP which allowed him to train more for them later.

I don't mean to seem argumentative or disrespectful, I just disagree that these techniques are worthless, gimmicky or for pretty boys.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:31 AM   #19
Zeeshan Parvez
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Quote:
For the most part crossfit's programming does that for you so there is little to no need to supplement with such exercises. And again im sorry if i came out with the crossfit attitude, but i do truly believe in it and believe that most of the gym routines that people do "studies" on, only work to a point, and generally build the pretty muscles, and do not have anywhere near the benefit that crossfit does. But of course that is my opinion
This is one aspect of online communication which I hate. You can never tell what the other person is truly feeling like since you do not have access to their facial expressions. Only if they invented something which captured your emotions along with your sentences!
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:08 AM   #20
Ed Haywood
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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