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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-09-2008, 06:07 PM   #1
Zeeshan Parvez
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HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct me if

My experience and research leads me to believe that any training routine if given time will work, whether it be Partial Reps, Static Contractions, High Intensity Reps, or traditional routines such as One rep max routines.

Every method has individuals who used the technique and succeded. I would like some input from the pros here and whether they agree with this belief of mine or not?
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:27 PM   #2
Jared Ashley
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan Parvez View Post
My experience and research leads me to believe that any training routine if given time will work, whether it be Partial Reps, Static Contractions, High Intensity Reps, or traditional routines such as One rep max routines.

Every method has individuals who used the technique and succeded. I would like some input from the pros here and whether they agree with this belief of mine or not?
I'd say yes and no.

yes, traditional routines (a well-deisnged one anyway) will work. 3-day split plus cardio will work if it's designed well and you do it with proper intensity (don't just do the same weight every week and push on the cardio instead of staying in the "fat burning" zone). HIT and a lot of other things will work too.

I think the problem is that most of those routines are harder to do properly, in that they require one to be much more pro-active in their program. People have to pay attention to when they stall and change things up, get creative with rep/set schemes and assistance excersises and find ways to push through plateaus. I think it's also really hard mentally to do the cardio 3x/week or more if you don't like running or whatever (same goes the other way, some people like the running and hate the lifting).

So yeah, if you do it right and you're smart and creative, it'll work... really well actually. But if you're not, it won't work and you'll get bored. One of CF's biggest strengths as a program is that somebody who's entirely uninvolved in designing their program will still get a great program, so long as they have the mental foritude to push themselves when they're actually hitting the iron. I also think CF done properly will work better (for GPP anyway) than most typical routines, because there are more tasks that you do in an aerobic/metcon manner. Running/biking/swimming will develop the cardiovascular system just fine, but it won't help you lift weights for time so much. There's an additional muscular endurance aspect that's missing. Sprints and such are also often neglected, although I've seen them appear in some of the better traditional programs occasionally.
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:38 PM   #3
Zeeshan Parvez
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Good point. I guess you have to keep the *interest* factor in mind when designing any program.
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:38 PM   #4
Ed Haywood
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Define "succeed".

If you embrace the CFT ethos of functional movements, some routines are decidedly un-functional. Doing partial reps of bicep curls on a preacher bench can make your arms huge, but is likely to produce less than optimal results for someone pursuing the type of fitness that crossfit advocates.

Whether a routine "works" for you all depends on what your goals are.
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:52 PM   #5
David Meverden
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan Parvez View Post
My experience and research leads me to believe that any training routine if given time will work, whether it be Partial Reps, Static Contractions, High Intensity Reps, or traditional routines such as One rep max routines.

Every method has individuals who used the technique and succeded. I would like some input from the pros here and whether they agree with this belief of mine or not?
To really answer this question you have to define "succeded," as Ed pointed out. Technically, whether a program is successful really only depends on what the goals are.

If the goal is merely to become better at the stuff you are doing in the gym, then sure, most anything will be successful.

If you have specific goals (hypertrophy or extreme endurance or powerful legs, etc), or goals for fitness that will be applicable outside the gym (general physical preparedness, fitness for a specific sport, etc) then no, not all programs are created equally, and they will not all "work."
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:35 AM   #6
Gavin Harrison
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Ed Haywood View Post
If you embrace the CFT ethos of functional movements, some routines are decidedly un-functional. Doing partial reps of bicep curls on a preacher bench can make your arms huge, but is likely to produce less than optimal results for someone pursuing the type of fitness that crossfit advocates.
I think you've got the wrong idea on this one... partial reps like say, rack pulls or halting deadlifts... definitely make you stronger...

Static contraction, yeah... planche, levers, iron cross, etc...

Not sure what "high intensity reps" are...

1RM Routines are the best way to get good at lifting heavy things... once... absolute strength is fun... westside...
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:25 AM   #7
Zeeshan Parvez
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Quote:
succeded
When I wrote that I was thinnking along the lines of increasing strength. And here is why I believe and feel these work.

1. Static Contractions - The very first time you go for a very heavy object you can only push against it (or pull it - for the sake of the discussion I will use the word push). But with presistance your muslces gain the strength to *move* it. Planche's are a good example of this.

2. Partial Reps - Physiologists claim that when you move an object or try to move an object, your strength transfers 15% above and below the ROM. So in effect, if you keep trying you will be able to push it that bit further with every try because of the transfer of strength.

3. One Rep maxes - Weightlifters use this technique and we have all seen it work.

4. High Repetions - Although in itself high repetions will not build strength, they WILL increase capillirization, tendon strength, thus laying the ground for further strength increases. Hence, increments will be slow but, since the ground has been set, they will come.
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Old 08-10-2008, 03:10 AM   #8
Shane Rapp
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

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Originally Posted by Zeeshan Parvez View Post
When I wrote that I was thinnking along the lines of increasing strength. And here is why I believe and feel these work.

1. Static Contractions - The very first time you go for a very heavy object you can only push against it (or pull it - for the sake of the discussion I will use the word push). But with presistance your muslces gain the strength to *move* it. Planche's are a good example of this.

2. Partial Reps - Physiologists claim that when you move an object or try to move an object, your strength transfers 15% above and below the ROM. So in effect, if you keep trying you will be able to push it that bit further with every try because of the transfer of strength.

3. One Rep maxes - Weightlifters use this technique and we have all seen it work.

4. High Repetions - Although in itself high repetions will not build strength, they WILL increase capillirization, tendon strength, thus laying the ground for further strength increases. Hence, increments will be slow but, since the ground has been set, they will come.
I don't think Static contractions, partial reps or high repetitions "succeed" unless they are only used to compliment a more "standard" workout program.

Back in the 90's a couple buddies of mine did that Power Factor training that Pete Sisco and John Little advocated. Their strength increased in the limited range of motion but on an exercise going through a pretty standard range of motion they saw next to no gains. A muscle gains most of its strength in the range of motion it's worked in.

High repetitions don't work either for strength gains. They are useful for local muscular endurance and strengthening connective tissue, but they do not strengthen. The guy that holds the record for the most pushups can do over a thousand. He cant lift very much weight though (compared to other strength athletes). I dont remember the exact numbers but I remember the guys bench press was in the high 200's.

Think about it, if high/partial/static reps worked then a marathon runner would be able to squat a tremendous amount of weight. Anyone that ran seriously would be able to. But they can't because a muscle needs to be worked through a good range of motion and if strength is the goal then tension must be high.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:02 AM   #9
Charles Bennington
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

Borrowed from Dan John:
"Let's review the two great principles of strength and conditioning:

1. Everything works.

2. Everything works, but for only so long."
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Old 08-10-2008, 01:38 PM   #10
Kevin McMahon
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Re: HIT, Static Contractions, Partial reps, Traditional routines all work...correct m

I respect the fact that you are trying to discuss things that many CFers say are "not as good as CF" or "fail to provide the same fitness as CF".
But do realize, for the specific goal that crosffitters have,(being in working physical condition for both everyday situations, and ready to tackle any challenge) nothing you can find will give the same results.

Will someone who has never touched a weight or done a jumping jack see benefit form the programs that you suggest, of course they will. Will those same routines help a crossfitter go above and beyond what Cf has already provided, almost assuredly no.

None of what you mentioned gets you body in tune with itself. None of promotes more body awareness or coordination. How often do i need to move immoveable objects, static resistence. Serisously, maybe everything that you mentioned will help you get that "pretty boy" body, or that you will look better than before. But none of it in any way shape or form will outperform CF in what CF's goal is.
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