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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 12-22-2013, 06:50 PM   #1
Kirksman Teo
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Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

So Courtney was over in Singapore and visited our gym (Solitude of Strength). It just so happened I was in the country. We found a few issues with her technique such as;

1. Bumps the bar forward in the second pull. Forces her upper body to work extra hard to pull it back in

2. Doesn't use enough arms and calves in her pull. Causes her to lack the full finish. Instead causes a very big "S" line when the bar moves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZroB1Aj89vU

Corrections that we did are in the link above. Hope this helps someone with the same problem. Cheers!
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:57 PM   #2
Jeff Enge
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

Ive never heard anybody cue to use more calves before.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:37 AM   #3
Kirksman Teo
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
Ive never heard anybody cue to use more calves before.
That's just a part of the full picture. By using that cue, we fully engage her glutes and hamstring extension, so she actually "sends" the bar instead of thrusts the bar forward and in a loop. She's also got a shorter torso which enables this cue to click right into place for her. If she had a longer torso, she would have probably benefitted more if we used the cue "big shrug" so she wouldn't lean over.

It's all balancing biomechanics. So each cue has to be personalised.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #4
Jeff Enge
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

Interesting. Watched the video, you are really hands on with your coaching. Definitely a little different style from my coach. And it did seem to make a difference pretty quickly.
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:29 AM   #5
Steven Wingo
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

Somewhere out there some coaches are teaching CrossFitters to "bump the bar upward" with their thighs on the 2nd pull in the snatch. I don't know where this originated but I have heard this multiple times and seen lots of CrossFitters snatch that way--almost always resulting in an outward arc of the bar after the bump, especially when snatches are being performed with lower weight for higher reps and they can muscle the weight around.

As I try to improve my coaching of the olympic lifts this is an issue which has troubled me. I have been left scratching my head. Why are some coaches teaching to bump the bar? How have I missed grasping such a big issue if that is true? I have heard the bump the bar cue multiple times and thought it was wrong. I've gone back and watched video after video and ultimately concluded that no, you don't want to bump the bar, I was taught correctly, and this was just a cue that somewhere along the line has been misinterpreted and taken too far.
It appears to me this was a cue designed to have the athlete to keep the bar close to the body and when you do so and start to fully extend your hips there is a point at which your thigh will kiss or brush the bar--but you don't actually want to "bump" the bar to help move it, correct? You want the bar to move as purely vertical as possible and are not moving the bar in any way with a "bump."

Am I correct here?
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #6
Keith Miller
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
Somewhere out there some coaches are teaching CrossFitters to "bump the bar upward" with their thighs on the 2nd pull in the snatch. I don't know where this originated but I have heard this multiple times and seen lots of CrossFitters snatch that way--almost always resulting in an outward arc of the bar after the bump, especially when snatches are being performed with lower weight for higher reps and they can muscle the weight around.

As I try to improve my coaching of the olympic lifts this is an issue which has troubled me. I have been left scratching my head. Why are some coaches teaching to bump the bar? How have I missed grasping such a big issue if that is true? I have heard the bump the bar cue multiple times and thought it was wrong. I've gone back and watched video after video and ultimately concluded that no, you don't want to bump the bar, I was taught correctly, and this was just a cue that somewhere along the line has been misinterpreted and taken too far.
It appears to me this was a cue designed to have the athlete to keep the bar close to the body and when you do so and start to fully extend your hips there is a point at which your thigh will kiss or brush the bar--but you don't actually want to "bump" the bar to help move it, correct? You want the bar to move as purely vertical as possible and are not moving the bar in any way with a "bump."

Am I correct here?
I don't know about teaching Crossfitters, but I have been seeing this also. I was taught that the bar should brush the hips/thighs, not "hit" or "slam" into the hips/thighs. I think some of this has come from Jon North, who actively teaches to slam the bar into the hips. I know of no other coaches who teach this bar slam, but Jon North seems to be a mini-celebrity (primarily by having an ostentatious attitude) and because he makes big weights, people are trying to emulate him. Too many people are trying to emulate certain people because they lift big weights and don't focus on what technique should work for them, let alone what basic technique elements have to be in place.

So, yes, the bar should brush, or lightly bump, the hips/thighs in the Oly lifts, otherwise the bar will get too far away from you in the second pull and you'll lose the bar forward, or have to jump forward to catch it, if you get lucky to land in the right spot.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:37 AM   #7
Jeff Enge
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

Yeah, I saw this a ton with my old affiliates coaches. One of them had favorite cues of "slam the bar with the hips" and "stomp feet hard" as the most important things. Of course, he got to the point where he was doi g snatches with a towel in his pants because he was smacking the bar so hard!

Thats why when I went to coach at my current gym, I was happy that they didnt try to force teach cleans and snatches to the general fitness population, and I brought all their competition folks back to PVCs for a few days. You can tell how ridiculous it would be to loop to bar off your hips when you are doing it with functionally no weight.

On top of that, its easy to tell when Im a little off in that direction with my pull because the front of my hips start to get really sore.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:52 PM   #8
John Donovan
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

If you see a slo mo version of a Jon North snatch the bar really doesn't come forward of its original starting point much. Jon does a pretty exaggerated S pull and is actually behind the bar when he makes contact. At this point in the pull the bar is a good couple inches back from where it starts so any forward arc bring it back to its starting point. The bar shouldn't be left out in space waiting to get hit though.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:39 AM   #9
Steven Wingo
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Miller View Post
I don't know about teaching Crossfitters, but I have been seeing this also. I was taught that the bar should brush the hips/thighs, not "hit" or "slam" into the hips/thighs. I think some of this has come from Jon North, who actively teaches to slam the bar into the hips. I know of no other coaches who teach this bar slam, but Jon North seems to be a mini-celebrity (primarily by having an ostentatious attitude) and because he makes big weights, people are trying to emulate him. Too many people are trying to emulate certain people because they lift big weights and don't focus on what technique should work for them, let alone what basic technique elements have to be in place.

So, yes, the bar should brush, or lightly bump, the hips/thighs in the Oly lifts, otherwise the bar will get too far away from you in the second pull and you'll lose the bar forward, or have to jump forward to catch it, if you get lucky to land in the right spot.
Thanks for the source of the info. I looked up Jon North and watched one of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV532Bpc8XU

It is pretty unmistakable he is saying bump the bar hard with your hips. This is not consistent with all the other info I've read and watched.

From a physics perspective, I have a hard time believing anything beneficial is actually done by bumping the bar. You are knocking it forward more than up if anything. This may be a situation where a great lifter doesn't fully understand his own lift and is misinterpreting what is really going on when his thighs hit the bar. Maybe it is a good cue promoting violent opening of the hip but can't be taken literally.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:15 AM   #10
Keith Miller
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Re: Snatch Fixes for Courtney Modecki CF Latin America Champ

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
From a physics perspective, I have a hard time believing anything beneficial is actually done by bumping the bar. You are knocking it forward more than up if anything. This may be a situation where a great lifter doesn't fully understand his own lift and is misinterpreting what is really going on when his thighs hit the bar. Maybe it is a good cue promoting violent opening of the hip but can't be taken literally.
There's been a discussion on Pendlay's forum too regarding this exact thing, lifters teaching something they don't fully understand and the problems that come of it due to the cues. I think this is exactly what's happening, but you can see the problems it's causing with lifters taking the cue too literally.
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