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Old 04-07-2011, 06:31 AM   #1
Jonathan Vechet
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Low bar squat and linear progression

So I reset my squat weight, again, and I think I finally got an actual low bar squat. Two of the big things I'm noticing is that 1) my left wrist is bent, which I'm sure is a shoulder flexibility issue, and 2) my knees come in a bit after the "bounce" but stay out for the remainder of the lift.

http://www.vimeo.com/22061535 WFS

If y'all notice anything else, please tell.

And also: Is it possible for my squat to stall on linear progression (which I've been on since the beginning of the year) sooner than the rest of my lifts? I reset the weight back to 185 and have only added 5lbs per workout in order to better concentrate on my form. I hit 235 Monday, and was unable to complete my sets. And if you look at the video, which I hope you do, you'll notice that at 225 it's not exactly a walk in the park for me. I reset the weight on the rest of my lifts as well, but those felt more like they were closing in on their limits of linear progression rather than an early burn out.

Any suggestions?
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:44 AM   #2
Robert Fabsik
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

I feel like you might be getting the bar too far forward/too much forward lean/bend early on in the squat. I think you might feel more stable if you stay a little more upright in the begging and as you near the bottom of the squat you can have a bigger lean.

With a LBBS you can have more foreward leand since the bar is lower on your back, but if you do i t too early you'll really change the mechanics of the lift. As you hips push back more you can have more foreward lean to act as a counterbalance and to keep the barbell over the center of the foot.

In regards to making progress, make sure you are doing good recovery--sleep/food. If you've approached the squat a lot and are getting stuck around 225, you might want to consider micro-loading (2.5lb jumps for a little while) or just squatting 2xa week for a while.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:16 AM   #3
Beau Bryant
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Vechet View Post
And if you look at the video, which I hope you do, you'll notice that at 225 it's not exactly a walk in the park for me. I reset the weight on the rest of my lifts as well, but those felt more like they were closing in on their limits of linear progression rather than an early burn out.

Any suggestions?
How long have you been on the program?
How much weight have you put on?

Just a guess but this may answer your question.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #4
Joshua Gritton
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

Honestly your stance is a bit too wide. this is obvious in the rear angle picture as your feet are a good measure more than shoulder width apart. Narrow the stand and work on hip to knee extension timing and you will break 225 like its nothing.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:16 PM   #5
Jonathan Vechet
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
I feel like you might be getting the bar too far forward/too much forward lean/bend early on in the squat. I think you might feel more stable if you stay a little more upright in the begging and as you near the bottom of the squat you can have a bigger lean.

With a LBBS you can have more foreward leand since the bar is lower on your back, but if you do i t too early you'll really change the mechanics of the lift. As you hips push back more you can have more foreward lean to act as a counterbalance and to keep the barbell over the center of the foot.
I was under the impression that a high bar squat would cause more forward lean, not a low bar. And I remember Rippetoe saying that about a third of the way down, the back should establish it's position for the rest of the way down and back up to that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Bryant View Post
How long have you been on the program?
How much weight have you put on?

Just a guess but this may answer your question.
My first Starting Strength workout was 12/27/2010.
My starting weight was 172, and my last weigh in (a few days ago) was 196.
Here's the weights I was stalling out on before I reset on my other lifts:

bench press- 220
press- 157.5
power clean- 215 (can't do them any more due to building structure issues)
deadlift- 335 (reset to work on form, not due to stalling)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Gritton View Post
Honestly your stance is a bit too wide. this is obvious in the rear angle picture as your feet are a good measure more than shoulder width apart. Narrow the stand and work on hip to knee extension timing and you will break 225 like its nothing.
When I look down at my feet they seem to be just outside my shoulders, but apparently I'm wrong. How will narrowing my stance help me push through the weight?

And thanks for the help everyone.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:34 PM   #6
Joshua Gritton
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

The stance will dictate the angle of the knees when they push out and fix the over all geometry of your lift. Bring them to shoulder width from your perspective and when you go down into the hole drive your knees out and initiate the push with your booty first. With the narrower stance you will maintain tightness in the hamstrings both earlier and longer allowing you to easily reach proper depth without risking the disengaging of the glutes and hamstrings.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:45 PM   #7
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

Your stance is much too wide. That's messing up a whole bunch of other stuff.

A high bar squat will result in a more upright position than a low bar squat. You are doing good mornings on half of your reps, but again, your stance is really screwing with things.

There is no reason for you to stall at this weight as an adult male. You look skinny. You should eat a sandwich.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:29 PM   #8
Jonathan Vechet
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

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Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
Your stance is much too wide. That's messing up a whole bunch of other stuff.

A high bar squat will result in a more upright position than a low bar squat. You are doing good mornings on half of your reps, but again, your stance is really screwing with things.

There is no reason for you to stall at this weight as an adult male. You look skinny. You should eat a sandwich.
Ok, so the consensus is that my stance is too wide. Duly noted and will be corrected.

What else is being adversely effected by my stance?

And in regards to being skinny; I honestly didn't think I was. I mean, I know I am according to the 70's Big guys, but to me, size is a by-product, not a goal. I have no problem destroying food with my facehole, so long as it will help with my recovery.
And actually, my only two objections with getting larger are adversely effected bodyweight movements, and probably buying new pants. I hate shopping unless it's for guns or food.

And since you're pretty much the female version of Rip (I see you involved in almost all Starting Strength related posts), about what weight should I be around and approximately what weight should I be putting up before linear progression legitimately stalls? I'm 5'11 and 196 as of current.

And thanks to all for the help. I just want to get stronger but I can't brain good.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:29 AM   #9
Joshua Gritton
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

Live life according to Tamara and you will find that. Adult males>200lbs at any height from 5' 6" and up.

And just so you know Tamara I am working on getting there plan to be 200+ by december :P
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:16 AM   #10
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Low bar squat and linear progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Vechet View Post
Ok, so the consensus is that my stance is too wide. Duly noted and will be corrected.

What else is being adversely effected by my stance?

And in regards to being skinny; I honestly didn't think I was. I mean, I know I am according to the 70's Big guys, but to me, size is a by-product, not a goal. I have no problem destroying food with my facehole, so long as it will help with my recovery.

And actually, my only two objections with getting larger are adversely effected bodyweight movements, and probably buying new pants. I hate shopping unless it's for guns or food.

And since you're pretty much the female version of Rip (I see you involved in almost all Starting Strength related posts), about what weight should I be around and approximately what weight should I be putting up before linear progression legitimately stalls? I'm 5'11 and 196 as of current.

And thanks to all for the help. I just want to get stronger but I can't brain good.
I think that you will be able to sort out your knee issues and back angle issues a lot easier once you fix your stance. It is really hard to drive out of the hole using your @ss with your stance that wide.

At 5'11 and 196 lbs, I'm actually kind of proud of you . There isn't a goal weight, rather, you need to eat enough to avoid stalling. And, if you are an adult male who currently weighs 196 lbs, you should be able to get a good deal more out of your LP. Fix your technique, and your squat sets won't feel so hard at that weight.
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