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Old 12-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #11
Emily Mattes
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Darrell E. White View Post
Well, well, well...what took you all so long, eh? 7 months from the Games...
In fact, I remember multiple threads on this very subject before, during, and after the games where questions went unanswered and organizers of the Games themselves were all silent on the subject. I bring it up now because there's a new round of competition going on.

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Once again we have the self-righteous arm-chair QB's weighing in from afar, assuming the negative, denying Crossfitters the assumption of goodwill. Much of this was covered in an excruciatingly long thread on this Board.
All I remember from the thread was "We're going to test people" and "People are probably using." It's an athletic competition where the top prize is many thousands of dollars . . . Are you saying that Crossfitters are somehow more special and magical and moral than the rest of the athletic world? Let's be honest here, Crossfitters are still human, and with that money on the line using is an incredibly tempting option.

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Along comes Games III and uh oh, thousands of Crossfitters now exist in a world in which all of a sudden there's money involved. Someone at HQ, looking at this growth says something like "well, maybe we ought to PED test", and PED testing is introduced. Do you have any idea how expensive it was to do the rudimentary testing that occurred at Games III? Have you any idea how much money the Games cost? How much money was LOST in the production of the Games?
OK, if it costs too much, then don't test? No reason to get huffy about it. If you want Crossfit to be taken seriously as a sport, you act like it's a sport, not like it's a magical gift HQ is graciously granting to the world, and any questions about the functions of the Games are to be met with self-righteous indignation.

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Boy, I sure bet the Glassmans hope so, but it ain't there today, and insisting that somehow that represents some sort of nefarious, underhanded, sneaky program that lacks transparency and legitimacy is silly.
Er, man, I just wanted to know about the process. I remember the testing was touted as a Big Deal before the Games, but then fell to the wayside after, and there was no commentary on the actual procedure. If reporting all that was an oversight, then why not report on it now? Or make sure that there's better documentation this time around?

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It's a four year old project. It will continue to evolve in all ways. IMO you have exactly the wrong approach and the wrong angle if your first inclination is to assume bad faith . . . . THIS is your rationale for malignant skepticism? Really?
"Malignant skepticism"? Again, why are you taking legitimate inquiry so personally? Questions about steroid use are asked about every other athletic competition on the planet. How is it malignant skepticism to treat Crossfit the same way?


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Do you have expertise in PED testing at the international level? Willing to offer high quality help in a positive light? My bet is that you would find a receptive ear at CFHQ. The people running the Crossfit Games are trying their best to run them clean, above-board, and well.
That's great, I don't have personal experience, but I assume they've talked with powerlifting associations or the USADA or any other organizations that have experience with mass drug-testing of competitors?
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:28 PM   #12
Eric Montgomery
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Benjamin Edelen View Post
Not that I don't believe the second-hand report of every competitor being clean, but it would contribute to the legitimacy of the "test of the fittest man and woman in the world" claim to publish the laboratory reports rather than just have someone mention that everyone passed. I have no doubt that pretty much everyone is legit, but as was mentioned above that kind of transparency would deter future drug abuse by potential games participants and would discourage the well established community of drug-using "athletes" from getting a foothold at the event.
I don't remember seeing any reports from Beijing 2008 that Michael Phelps passed his tests--we just heard about the ones who didn't.

Just sayin'....
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:40 PM   #13
Stephen Flamm
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

I seem to remember watching recent video from CF in which someone from HQ mentioned something along the lines of "no one in the top-16 failed the drug test". Strange wording if no one at all failed.

Does anyone else remember seeing this?
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:56 PM   #14
Emily Mattes
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
I don't remember seeing any reports from Beijing 2008 that Michael Phelps passed his tests--we just heard about the ones who didn't.

Just sayin'....
At the same time, if you want you can look up the exact rules and procedures for how the drug tests were conducted, and could probably request Phelps's results.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:09 AM   #15
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Stephen Flamm View Post
I seem to remember watching recent video from CF in which someone from HQ mentioned something along the lines of "no one in the top-16 failed the drug test". Strange wording if no one at all failed.
"We took samples from all the qualifiers, but after the first day we threw away the samples for all but the top-16. Why spend all that money to test samples for people who couldn't place?"

Which is typical of other sports as well, FWIW. Testing criteria vary, but typically the most rigorous regimes are random testing through the year, plus a random sample at the event itself, plus top finishers. Testing every athlete at every event would be a huge expense without really giving much additional information.

Katherine
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:29 AM   #16
Stephen Flamm
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

Thanks, Katherine.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:35 AM   #17
Shane Skowron
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

So how much does it actually cost to test 32 people?
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:47 AM   #18
Jonathan Yoon
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
So how much does it actually cost to test 32 people?
This depends on where you go and what you use.

(WFS Links)

http://www.toxassociates.com/steroids.htm

Not sure if it's a whole kit with multiple uses, but it goes for $450 to $650 depending on whether you want urine or hair to be tested.

http://www.craigmedical.com/Steroid_Testing.htm

These guys charge per kit, a pack of 12 is $825, so it's well over $2,000 to test a group of 32.

http://www.testcountry.com/products.html?product=1836

Another urine testing kit at $132 per kit if bought for 16+, so over $4000.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:44 PM   #19
Benjamin Edelen
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

You could get a better deal than that just by contacting the laboratory director of a nearby hospital. They do substance panels all day long and they will cut you a hell of a deal just to get the business. When they publish reports, they come in a hard copy and electronic form which makes the results scientifically clear. I do not know whether or not you can request such a form from the Olympics coordinators regarding Michael Phelps specifically, but you can certainly find out what board reviewed the results, who was on that board, what organization did the testing, what tests were being applied (after the event), and the procedures for collecting, testing, and reporting. Without even presenting any specific results (just giving an all-clear) the games coordinators could easily publish this kind of information. Even if the procedure is not as mature as that in other serious sporting events due to our status as relative newcomers, at least that procedure would be clear to the community, thus contributing to the "open source" nature of our methodology and adding legitimacy to the games as a valid test of elite fitness. It would also benefit coordinators of other regional events by showing them how the procedures at the official events have evolved and giving them a template for similar testing in their events.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #20
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: 2009 & 2010 Crossfit Games steroid testing?

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Originally Posted by Benjamin Edelen View Post
You could get a better deal than that just by contacting the laboratory director of a nearby hospital. They do substance panels all day long and they will cut you a hell of a deal just to get the business. When they publish reports, they come in a hard copy and electronic form which makes the results scientifically clear.
But will the lab director of a local hospital certify the chain of custody of the samples? I suspect that's a big part of the cost: if you're potentially depriving people of prizes based on the results, you need evidence that will literally stand up in court. Among other things, that means an audit trail to make sure that the sample was properly matched to the person, wasn't contaminated, etc.

Katherine
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