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Old 07-08-2009, 03:55 AM   #41
Justin Shipley
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Daniel, thanks for your reply. Your pointers on what to demand and expect from a psych, I will definitely apply. Your contribution has provided me with yet another tool to work with on my way back up out of this hole.

Robert, sorry if i gave the impression of downplaying your advice or of having found a better option; i didn't mean that. Your advice is more immediately relevant than any other insofar as i am definitely in the throes of bad withdrawal.

I awoke at 3am with a pounding headache, sheets and pillow soaked with sweat, shivering like a jelly on a plate, and vomited every hour on the hour until midday. Had a minor emotional breakdown on my wife's shoulder, this afternoon. It's taken till now, 7pm, to rehydrate myself adequately to the point where i can sweat and p*ss clear again. Man, i hope that's the crest of the hill, so to speak; I could use a little downhill...

You hit the nail on the head... i do need straight-time before embarking on anything too significant, action-wise.

Your point on, how shall we say...'broadening my interest base'...is spot-on.
For too long the dope has been the answer to all of life's sharp edges, and gradually but surely i have condensed my activities into the bare minimum requirements for human existence- don't see friends, don't see family, don't play music, don't PLAY, even, ferchrissakes- get no enjoyment from anything.

But after my...purging...today, i feel lighter,physically and emotionally; something has shifted, and i'm on the up and up!

Thankyou again for taking the time, guys
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:08 AM   #42
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Justin,
No apology neccesary. I was (am still) afraid that my ideas would be perceived as advice from a mental health pro. I am that, but I got here from there, not from college. I work with psychiatrists/psychologists of all stripes. Most of them are pretty good, but they will give you what they perceive you're looking for. If they think you want a pat on the head and a pilll, well... Meditation is hugely successful with anxiety and depression, the research supports it, but not as strongly as the anecdotal evidence does. In that sense it is like CrossFit.

One of the things that I've found to be true for me and the people I work with is persisting in doing the opposite of what feels comfortable. If I want to stop isolating and have more fun, I've got to stop isolating and have more fun even (especially) when I don't want to.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:38 AM   #43
Justin Shipley
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

The CF parallels are pertinent-
-if it's easy, you're not doing it right
-If it's still easy, you're not trying hard enough
-'random, varied, functional, high intensity'...I've been living the opposite, brother; predictable, unvarying, low intensity, dysfunctional... ooh, it's lucky i can laugh at myself
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Old 07-08-2009, 06:39 AM   #44
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Shipley View Post
The CF parallels are pertinent-
-if it's easy, you're not doing it right
-If it's still easy, you're not trying hard enough
-'random, varied, functional, high intensity'...I've been living the opposite, brother; predictable, unvarying, low intensity, dysfunctional... ooh, it's lucky i can laugh at myself
Winner!!!!
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #45
Barry Cooper
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Justin,

Thanks for the compliment. I don't deserve it, but I'll take it.

If you don't mind my asking, how old are your kids, and how long have you been married? Is it possible you are feeling a gap between the form of life enrichment you have chosen--children, and a loving nest for them to grow to thrive in--versus what could have been (you think)?

I will tell you in my view one of the most pernicious elements of philosophical Romanticism is this idea that life is supposed to be exciting and rich. I have suffered, and know that most people I know suffer, from wanting more than we have, no matter what we have.

We watch life seep away, and we never made that trip to Nepal, or ran that marathon, or watched turtles hatching somewhere, or whatever it is.

As the Tao Te Ching puts it, "there is no greater curse than desire". And what does our modern culture do? It AMPLIFIES desire. We are supposed to devour life, to drink up every last drop, to live with passion and purpose and vivacious intensity. We are supposed to chase Experience.

And it drives us nuts. It really does. Greed is not just for money. The more subtle, more pernicious (in some ways, at least) greed is for novelty. Hippies, with nothing, can still be greedy in this way.

Is it not funny, in some ways, that the most contented people most of us have known were our grandparents, who didn't know they were supposed to live lives filled with excitement?

We live--all of us--in oceans of silliness. I really don't see how most of our kids can grow up sane in our media saturated, meaning impoverished world.

As parents, it seems to me the best we can do is try to be sane ourselves, to inoculate our kids against the most pernicious ideas around us (particularly, against the idea that life is supposed to be easy, and that anyone "deserves" anything who hasn't earned it), and keep the faith.

Countless miles have been covered by people who couldn't imagine going another step.

Hope that helps. I'm writing this for both of us. I am often surprised at what comes out of my keyboard "mouth".
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:10 PM   #46
Barry Cooper
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Justin,

You know, I thought about you puking 6-7 times, and having a minor breakdown, and I really do think it would be useful, and a good use of time and money, to see a psychiatrist. It's not just about meds, but also about someone who is not personally connected to you helping you understand yourself.

Here is the way I look at it: this is a war. The goal is to win, and the means include considered use of ALL the tools available to you. In war, you have direct attacks, and flank/surprise attacks. A direct attack, in this case, would be to just say "I'm going to stop feeling this way". For me, personally, that has never worked.

Rather, I go about it indirectly. In your case, it might be that a short period of meds might help you gain some ground and momentum, which you could then sustain when you stop taking them. No one can carry your cross for you, but it's not impossible that the load could be lightened for a period of time.

You can't always be strong. None of us can. People that try go home and kick their dogs at night.

If I were you, with the symptoms you are describing, that is what I, personally, would do: go see a professional. If they are idiots, find another one. I went through, let me count, 4 shrinks before I abandoned the effort.

Find out, though, what they can offer. It is well worth the time.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:56 PM   #47
Justin Shipley
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Are you following me around, Barry? Man, you hold up a confronting mirror to my situation so often, it's uncanny...
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #48
Barry Cooper
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Go out on a crowded street, and look to the left and right. You'll have seen at least 3-4 people who are, in general terms, in your shoes. In many respects your anxiety is a good sign, since it means you are still trying to resolve the contradictions you see. Many people just give up, and turn off the lights.

Oh, and look over your left shoulder, behind the bush. . .
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:23 PM   #49
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

Just found this thread, it's brilliant stuff. Very brave of you, Justin. Barry, much of your posts could have been plucked directly from my mind, to the extent that it's a little spooky. Except that you express it far better than I could.
It's pretty late for me, so I'm going to cut this short except to say keep the thread going and good luck... funny how this board is a fine place for many discussions that you would never expect to find here.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:59 PM   #50
Justin Shipley
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Re: Anxiety - some help, please...

To answer directly Barry, my kids are 9, 7, 4, and 2.... probably goes a long way toward explaining a lot of the angst in my life!...girl-boy-boy-girl. I've been with my wife eleven years, married the past six.

Oh yes, you're right on the money with the chasm between expectation and reality... i wasn't allowed to watch much TV as a kid, less movies, and books were my door to another world, and i recall countless occasions of confusion and frustration throughout my life as reality consistently fell short of my romantic notions of family; schooling; romance; career...life in general, really.

I was never materially well off as a child- lived in hand me downs,ate from our farm, worked hard on said farm, and was surrounded by little, but enough, and expected no more, in a material sense. I still don't own a mobile phone; got my first (2nd hand) TV at 29 yrs old; have never owned a car made in the same decade as i'm driving it in... so my disappointment doesn't stem from unmet material expectations, because i expect and am proud of existing with very little.

But the strange notions i received and embraced from reading, again, 2nd hand books from my uncles, parents and grandparents, all written in the 1940's, 50's, and early 60's ( a strange era if there ever was one) definitely set in place a value system and list of expectations that has been a big square peg that i have been continually trying to ram down the round hole of life, with frustrating consequences.

I live on a small acreage in a town i lived in in those crazy years of age 16 to 21, have no debts or mortgage, and all my material needs are met without having to work TOO hard or long (not sure if this is good or bad...) and on the outside it would seem to others i have 'nothing to be anxious or depressed about'. Which kinda compounds things when i AM that way.

I absolutely relate to the disconnect between (clearly) unreal expectations and reality as a source of a lot of my angst... mealtimes can be nightmare, for example... and i know i avoided this uncomfortable reality, probably unconsciously, for a lot of my adult life- don't like your job? Leave it and get another (i've drawn a wage from over a hundred different sources over the years); having problems with a girlfriend? It's all her problem, leave her and find another; don't like this town? Pack up and go to another.... so while on one hand i was exercising a level freedom and willingness to chop and change that many might envy, it was also responsibility and accountability avoidance on a grand scale.

I fear for my children insofar as, if this disconnect produced such frustrations and confusion in me, a child of the 70's, what's today's mixed messages gonna produce in MY kids? I already see the danger signs, despite our best efforts in the opposite direction...

And maybe all this goes back to what has been discussed around the primary cause of pain in life being a lack of recognition and acceptance of the true nature of things...

My two finger typing has exhausted me... over and out for a minute...
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