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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-23-2010, 08:51 AM   #41
Arturo Garcia
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
If you are just wanting to do a strength program then I advocate standard Louie Simmons Westside. I do not, and NEVER support Westside for Skinny Bastards.

If you want to improve your CF abilities and get stronger then I recommend my program just published.
Where is your program, Chris?
 
Old 11-23-2010, 09:40 AM   #42
Todd Rehm
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

Here's why I preferred SS to Westside when I was looking for a beginning program: it fits on one sheet of paper, and after 3 workouts, you don't even need that one sheet of paper any more.

To start with Westside, I would have had to begin with reading the Book of Methods, and try to figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do.

As a novice figuring out what supplemental work to do in order to work on my weak point would have been frustrating because I was a walking 185# weak point.

I started SS with that one sheet of paper and access to a globo gym. Now I'm ready for more advanced programming, and I have the time under the bar to figure out what works for me and what I need to work on. But back then, it wouldn't have worked for me because I would have puzzled over it for about a week and then quit to go do some curls or something.

If a novice lifter asked me what to do in the same circumstances, I'd give them a single sheet of paper with SS written on it and a couple of websites.

If I lived somewhere where I could send them to a gym where they could get guidance in Westside methodology, sure I'd do that, but such a place doesn't exist in Atlanta to my knowledge.

If you can fit a westside-based program for a novice onto a single sheet of paper, I might pass it around. But telling a novice "buy the Westside book of methods and figure something out" will not be helpful to the vast majority of novice trainees.

Rip's never claimed that his authority depends on how much he deadlifts and it's a cheap straw-man argument. Westside offers enough real results that you don't need to stoop to that.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #43
Troy Becker
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

So let's see...

SS is a great program for novices, no one can deny that. WS has a great "program" for the advanced, no one can deny that. It turns out, apparently, that intermediates and novices can also do very well on WS "programming," thus WS is also a great program for them as well.

Conclusion- novices can go to SS or WS for great programming and strength gains either way. The advanced should obviously look at WS if they haven't already.

Is this so hard?

Interestingly enough- intermediates can also use the Texas Method template, (google it), in which you can use some WS style dynamic effort stuff. Rip talks about this in his book Practical Programming, and refers to the "amazing Louis Simmons" when he does.

Tada...
 
Old 11-23-2010, 09:42 AM   #44
Troy Becker
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
Where is your program, Chris?
It's in the journal
 
Old 11-23-2010, 09:44 AM   #45
Troy Becker
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Todd Rehm View Post
Here's why I preferred SS to Westside when I was looking for a beginning program: it fits on one sheet of paper, and after 3 workouts, you don't even need that one sheet of paper any more.

To start with Westside, I would have had to begin with reading the Book of Methods, and try to figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do.

As a novice figuring out what supplemental work to do in order to work on my weak point would have been frustrating because I was a walking 185# weak point.

I started SS with that one sheet of paper and access to a globo gym. Now I'm ready for more advanced programming, and I have the time under the bar to figure out what works for me and what I need to work on. But back then, it wouldn't have worked for me because I would have puzzled over it for about a week and then quit to go do some curls or something.

If a novice lifter asked me what to do in the same circumstances, I'd give them a single sheet of paper with SS written on it and a couple of websites.

If I lived somewhere where I could send them to a gym where they could get guidance in Westside methodology, sure I'd do that, but such a place doesn't exist in Atlanta to my knowledge.

If you can fit a westside-based program for a novice onto a single sheet of paper, I might pass it around. But telling a novice "buy the Westside book of methods and figure something out" will not be helpful to the vast majority of novice trainees.

Rip's never claimed that his authority depends on how much he deadlifts and it's a cheap straw-man argument. Westside offers enough real results that you don't need to stoop to that.
Since you asked... this is taken from http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/we...te-469668.html
(Probably not WFS on the following pages)

Sunday Dynamic Effort Bench

Dynamic Bench Press
Triceps
Shoulders
Lats/Upper Back


Monday Max Effort Squat/DL

Max Effort Exercise
Hamstrings
Low Back
Abs


Wednesday Max Effort Bench Press

Max Effort Exercise
Triceps
Shoulders
Lats/Upper Back


Friday Dynamic Squat/DL

Dynamic Squat
Hamstrings
Low Back
Abs
 
Old 11-23-2010, 10:13 AM   #46
David Steckler
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

On a related note, the WSJ had a piece on kids and strength training:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...WhatsNewsThird

WFS.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 10:17 AM   #47
Todd Rehm
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Troy Becker View Post
Since you asked... this is taken from http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/we...te-469668.html
(Probably not WFS on the following pages)

Sunday Dynamic Effort Bench

Dynamic Bench Press
Triceps
Shoulders
Lats/Upper Back


Monday Max Effort Squat/DL

Max Effort Exercise
Hamstrings
Low Back
Abs


Wednesday Max Effort Bench Press

Max Effort Exercise
Triceps
Shoulders
Lats/Upper Back


Friday Dynamic Squat/DL

Dynamic Squat
Hamstrings
Low Back
Abs
That's not enough to get a novice started. You need to give sets and reps. By the time you do that you're over a page. Nice try though.

What I think Chris fails to see is that there is no "best, most efficient, coolest ever" program in a vacuum and the best program for any individual is the one they'll actually do.

I believe you'll get better results with the average novice by giving them SS on a single sheet of paper than you can by saying "google Westside Barbell and figure something out." The difference is not that SS is better or more efficient in producing strength results, but that SS will be better in getting the trainee actually training.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 10:46 AM   #48
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
Elite athletes rely on Westside/Louie Simmons. Therefore, Rippetoe's program is inferior for novice lifters.

In other news, cats like to eat fish. Therefore, my plumber isn't a great tennis player.



It all makes sense to me.
His program is inferior period. It is some of those on this site, you included (evidently), who can't get over the concept that novice's somehow have dramatically different needs in type when it comes to strength training.

They don't.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 10:47 AM   #49
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Jacob Israel Briskin View Post
Go read my post again, then find the part where I said that a) Rip was stronger than Louie or b) Rip is better than Louie at producing elite powerlifters.

I'll save you some time: you won't find them. The reason for that is that neither Rip's strength nor Louie's stable of powerlifters is relevant to the meaning of the word "novice" in the sentence "linear progression is the most efficient way to increase the strength of a novice", which is what you are trying your very best to not understand.




Couldn't have said it better myself.
Lol, I understand perfectly, you, on the other hand, refuse to accept the truth. Linear progression is not better for the novice than Westside's approach. It is, in fact, inferior for the same reasons it is inferior for more advanced lifters.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 10:49 AM   #50
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
Where is your program, Chris?
It was posted on the journal last week. Do you have access to the journal?
 
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